[gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Lyle Puente
gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:47:54 -0400
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Jay,
you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you missed =20
all the publications.
We have put out some beautiful editions that we are quite proud of
Joining, or volunteering to help would would be more productive than =20
trashing something people have worked very hard on, without any =20
compensation, rather paying out our own pockets to keep things going. =20=
We have two lifetime members on our board. We put our money into GGA =20
gladly.
Lyle
Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko Association
http://www.gekkota.org
http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned
On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote:
Lyle,
There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the =20
board of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no =20
journals,and furthermore no real reason for continuing to exist. What =20=
is being done of any real merit with the money received from GGA =20
members? Speaking of merit...I am judging the GGA on its own.There is =20=
absolutely no substance what-so-ever to this "society". After the =20
flop of the IGS I thought everyone would have learned something. =20
Apparently not. As president I hold you personally responsible for =20
the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think the GGA was =20
beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position as =20
President. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason =20=
for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let =20=
nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out =20
with some damn dignity.
Jay "GG" Sommers
From: lylepuente@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400
GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never =20
intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests.
The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the =20
membership addressed and will continue to do so.
This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge =20
and to help when we can.
Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also =20
criticism freely.
I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that:
"Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the =20=
professional herpetologist to the hobbyist."
The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they =20
have no interest in or unsubscribe.
All are welcome
( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... )
Lyle
Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko Association
http://www.gekkota.org
http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned
On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:
Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I =20
meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The =20
problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up =20
over the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my =20
inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be...
"The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko =20
enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest =20
in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist.
The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in =20
gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to =20
study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. =20
Furthermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in =20
gekkonids by providing a voice and means of communicating and sharing =20=
of resources and ideas. "
Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I =20
maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species =20
collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around =20
geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of =20
you know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's =20
misery,It is the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping =20=
destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being =20
rediculous.
PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance.
GGA...R.I.P.
Very kindest regards,
Jay "GG" Sommers
From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000
I would say next time to just flush it.
> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
> I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide
> chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find
> out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
>
> > Aloha, Kind Friends
> >
> > I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But =20
sometimes you
> > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, =20=
too. I
> > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become =20
apparent
> > that it is hopeless.
> >
> > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile =20=
floor.
> > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move =20
her out
> > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from
> > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot =20
traffic, in the
> > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was =20
obvious it
> > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped =20
for the best.
> >
> > By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly =20
sunken,
> > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black =20
blotchy
> > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which =20
obviously
> > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 =20=
hours
> > since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If =20
there had
> > been any hope ... :(
> >
> > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our =20
vet who
> > we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here =20
in the
> > islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding
> > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical
> > treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let =20
alone
> > for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't =20
find a
> > neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My
> > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the =20=
island
> > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would
> > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and
> > animals is sadly lacking.
> >
> > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just =20
treat
> > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. =20
But I
> > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who =20
really knew
> > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern =20
California,
> > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always =20=
been a
> > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to =20
start with.
> >
> > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is
> > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when =20
our own
> > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection =20
-- she
> > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she
> > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that
> > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you =20
are just
> > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that =20
experience
> > has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet.
> >
> > Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is =20
illegal in
> > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a =20
permit
> > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them
> > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any =20
animal
> > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native
> > populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there =20
were good
> > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat =20=
a day
> > gecko since they cannot be legally kept.
> >
> > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to =20
stand by
> > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need =20
something
> > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my =20
husband
> > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I =20=
could
> > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like =20
this poor
> > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we =20=
think
> > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could =20
chew and
> > coughed her back up.
> >
> >
> > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that =20
freezing her
> > was worse than the pain she was suffering.
> >
> > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing =20
would be
> > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were
> > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for
> > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have
> > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day =20=
geckos,
> > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and =20=
I am
> > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(
> >
> > Mahalo, Sherron
> >
> >
> > =20
------------------------------------------------------------------------=20=
----
> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of =20
Hawaii)
> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-=20
pohaku.com
> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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--Boundary_(ID_bH2o5sud953nj52qBkqudA)
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Jay,<div>you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you =
missed all the publications.</div><div>We have put out some beautiful =
editions that we are quite proud of</div><div>Joining, or volunteering =
to help would would be more productive than trashing something people =
have worked very hard on, without any compensation, rather paying out =
our own pockets to keep things going. We have two lifetime members on =
our board. We put our money into GGA =
gladly.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Lyle</div><div><br></div><=
div><br></div><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; "><div><div>Lyle Puente</div><div>President</div><div>Global Gecko =
Association</div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.gekkota.org">http://www.gekkota.org</a></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com">http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com</=
a></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned">http://www.myspace.com/My=
BrothersBanned</a></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span></div><div><div>On =
Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">Lyle,<br>=A0<br>=A0 There is most =
definitely a self serving interest to all on the board of the so-called =
"Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and furthermore no =
real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of any real =
merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...I am =
judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ever =
to this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would =
have learned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you =
personally responsible for the =A0inexcusable lack of leadership. If I =
didn't think the GGA was beyond repair I would directly challenge you =
for your position as President. The problem is it is too far gone. There =
is no real reason for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do =
would be to let nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let =
it go out with some damn dignity.<br>=A0<br>=A0<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Jay "GG" =
Sommers<br><br><br><br><blockquote><hr id=3D"EC_stopSpelling">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:lylepuente@optonline.net">lylepuente@optonline.net</a><br>S=
ubject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...<br>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gekkota.com</a><br>Dat=
e: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400<br><br>GGA has and will exist for all =
who have an interest. It was never intended or will be intended for an =
exclusive group of self interests.<div>The GGA journal and newsletter is =
produced with all interests of the membership addressed and will =
continue to do so.</div><div>This list is open to all, including non GGA =
members free of charge and to help when we can.</div><div>Everyone is =
free to post, questions, help suggestions and =
also=A0criticism=A0freely.</div><div>I read the below post of our =
purpose and it seems like we do just =
that:</div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D"EC_Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 13px; font-family: Tahoma; ">"Membership is open to =
anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional =
herpetologist to the hobbyist."</span></div><div><font =
class=3D"EC_Apple-style-span" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px; =
"><br></span></font><div>The threads are labeled here and one can always =
deleted those they have no interest in or =
unsubscribe.</div><div><br></div><div>All are welcome</div><div>( i just =
put on some John Denver hahaha ...... =
)</div><div><br></div><div>Lyle</div><div><br></div><div><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; font-family: =
Helvetica; "><div>Lyle Puente</div><div>President</div><div>Global Gecko =
Association</div><div><a href=3D"http://www.gekkota.org/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.gekkota.org</a></div><div><br =
class=3D"EC_webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.mybrothersbanned.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com</a></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned</a></div><div><b=
r =
class=3D"EC_webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br></div></span><div><di=
v>On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"EC_Apple-interchange-newline"><span class=3D"EC_Apple-style-span"=
style=3D"word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 13px/normal =
Tahoma; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; =
white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; =
">=A0Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I =
meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The =
problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over =
the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This =
is what the GGA was supposed to be...<br>=A0<br>=A0 "The Global Gecko =
Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. =
Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the =
professional herpetologist to the hobbyist.<br>=A0 The GGA is an =
organization committed to promote interest in gekkonids in a variety of =
ways, from responsible captive care, to study in the wild, conservation, =
academic research and beyond. Furthermore, the GGA will serve=A0 people =
who are interested in gekkonids by providing a voice and means of =
communicating and sharing of resources and ideas.=A0"=A0<br>=A0<br>=A0 =
Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I =
maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species =
collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around =
geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you =
know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is =
the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the =
interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being =
rediculous.<br>=A0<br>=A0 PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue =
for social =
acceptance.<br>=A0<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
GGA...R.I.P.<br>=A0<br>=A0=A0 Very kindest =
regards,<br>=A0<br>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
Jay "GG" Sommers<br><br><br><br><br><blockquote><hr =
id=3D"EC_EC_stopSpelling">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:jacobsommers@hotmail.com">jacobsommers@hotmail.com</a><br>T=
o:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gekkota.com</a><br>Sub=
ject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...<br>Date: Mon, 9 =
Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000<br><br>=A0=A0 I would say next time to just =
flush it.<br><br><br><br><hr id=3D"EC_EC_stopSpelling">> From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mhartley@ix.netcom.com">mhartley@ix.netcom.com</a><br>> =
To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gekkota.com</a><br>> =
Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...<br>> Date: =
Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800<br>><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> Hi Sherron,<br>><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> I know a snake-keeper =
that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> chamber, because she =
doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> out more, or put you =
in touch with her if you like.<br>><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> Hope this helps,<br>> =
Melody<br>><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> =
Sherron wrote:<br>><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>=
> > Aloha, Kind Friends<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > I prefer to let =
nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > can see they are in =
obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > can't bear to see =
them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > that it is =
hopeless.<br>> ><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> =
> This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile =
floor.<span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > When we =
found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > of the way. We =
placed her in a container so she would be safe from<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > predators (other =
geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > hopes she would =
recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was obvious it<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > hurt her to move, =
but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for the best.<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > By the afternoon of =
the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken,<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > she had trouble =
breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > areas. She would =
stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > was causing her =
more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > since her fall and =
she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > been any hope ... =
:(<br>> ><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > If =
we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet =
who<span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > we did =
trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in the<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > islands, we don't =
have those resources. Our real problem is finding<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > someone who would =
even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > treatment for =
humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > for exotic animals. =
I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > neurologist that =
knows anything about my disease on this island. My<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > husband sees a =
cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > of Oahu. It took me =
1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > treat my =
"complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > animals is sadly =
lacking.<br>> ><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> =
> And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just =
treat<span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > cats =
& dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But =
I<span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > really am =
not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > how to take care of =
"exotics" like our pet rats in southern California,<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > too. Finding good =
vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > problem -- it's =
just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > I am also no longer =
convinced that a shot from just any vet is<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > automatically =
better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > vet was out of town =
and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > suffered a lot from =
it and it took her a long time to die as she<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > suffered. Not all =
vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > animals really can =
suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > taking your =
chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > has made me leery =
of automatically trusting every vet.<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > Worse, after doing =
some checking online, I find that it is illegal in<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > Hawaii to catch =
& keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > for scientific =
research) in order to discourage any trade in them<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > whatsoever. It is =
okay to keep the native species, but not any animal<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > banned for =
import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > populations (native =
insects, in this case). So even if there were good<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > gecko vets, they =
would be risking their license if they to treat a day<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > gecko since they =
cannot be legally kept.<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > So right now we are =
pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > and watch them die, =
no matter how long it takes, or we need something<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > else we can come up =
with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > can "smash" them, =
as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > unless they were =
already partially crushed already ... or like this poor<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > little baby we =
found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > partially eaten by =
a day gecko who bit off more than it could chew and<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > coughed her back =
up.<br>> ><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> =
><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > We're sure =
she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > was worse than the =
pain she was suffering.<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > I didn't know what =
to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would be<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > quicker and kinder =
than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > wrong, I regret it =
immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > mammals; I just do =
not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > encountered such =
dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos,<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > it is possible this =
horrible situation will come up again -- and I am<span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > desperate for a =
better choice. Can you help? :(<br>> ><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > Mahalo, =
Sherron<br>> ><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> =
><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> > =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--<br>> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of =
Hawaii)<br>> > Homepage:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a=
href=3D"http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron" =
target=3D"_blank">http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span>-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com">mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com</a><br>=
> > See our rats:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html" =
target=3D"_blank">http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html</a><br>> =
><span class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>><span =
class=3D"EC_Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>> =
_______________________________________________<br>> Global Gecko =
Association<br>><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.gekkota.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.gekkota.com</a><br>> Classifieds<br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi</a><b=
r>> gecko mailing list<br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gekkota.com</a><br>><s=
pan class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko" =
target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko</a><br><=
br><hr>Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks =
to join you on Windows Live=99 Messenger.<a =
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--Boundary_(ID_bH2o5sud953nj52qBkqudA)--