[gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Jay Sommers
gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Mon, 9 Jun 2008 21:16:19 +0000
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Lyle,
=20
There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the board of t=
he so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and furthe=
rmore no real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of any rea=
l merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...I am =
judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ever to=
this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would have le=
arned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you personally respons=
ible for the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think the GGA was=
beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position as Presiden=
t. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason for the GGA t=
o exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let nature take it's c=
ourse and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out with some damn dignity.
=20
=20
Jay "GG" Sommers
From: lylepuente@optonline.netSubject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distres=
sed Geckos...To: gecko@lists.gekkota.comDate: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -040=
0GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never intended=
or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests.=20
The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the member=
ship addressed and will continue to do so.
This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and to h=
elp when we can.
Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also criticism fr=
eely.
I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that:
"Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the profe=
ssional herpetologist to the hobbyist."
The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they have no =
interest in or unsubscribe.
All are welcome
( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... )
Lyle
Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko Association
http://www.gekkota.org
http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned
On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify m=
y last post. When I said flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been redu=
ced to a pathetic joke.The problem is that the joke has no humor. My email =
has been blowing up over the last week and not one post was worthy of landi=
ng in my inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be... "The Global Ge=
cko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membersh=
ip is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional h=
erpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to prom=
ote interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive ca=
re, to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furth=
ermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by provi=
ding a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas.=
" Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I mai=
ntain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species collections in t=
he world(over 200 species). My life revolves around geckos,not one person i=
n the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA =
die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical thi=
ng to do. You are helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is f=
ar beyond being rediculous. PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue=
for social acceptance. GGA...R=
.I.P. Very kindest regards, Jay "GG" Sommers
From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck=
o]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +000=
0 I would say next time to just flush it.
> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [=
gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:1=
4 -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I thi=
nk) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maua=
lly". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > H=
ope this helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I=
prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > c=
an see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > =
can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > =
that it is hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ce=
iling onto a tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we trie=
d to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so sh=
e would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) an=
d foot traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and =
water. It was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when sti=
ll, so we hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, howe=
ver, her eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her ski=
n was developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeat=
edly for air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, =
it had been about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to det=
eriorate rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were s=
till on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trus=
t and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we =
don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who wou=
ld even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for huma=
ns is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals.=
I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that know=
s anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiolog=
ist who flies over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1=
/2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" pro=
blems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > =
> And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > =
cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > r=
eally am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > >=
how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > =
> too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a >=
> problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with=
.> > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > >=
automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > =
> vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > =
> suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suff=
ered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals r=
eally can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > > taking =
your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > > has mad=
e me leery of automatically trusting every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing s=
ome checking online, I find that it is illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & kee=
p any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > > for scientific researc=
h) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to k=
eep the native species, but not any animal > > banned for import/export tha=
t are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in th=
is case). So even if there were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking =
their license if they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally=
kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to=
stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need s=
omething > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my =
husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that =
I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like =
this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants,=
we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could=
chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're sure she was in terribl=
e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was worse than the pain she=
was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband fe=
lt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in=
pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at =
all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we h=
ave > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day ge=
ckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and =
I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(> > > > Mahalo, She=
rron> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Isl=
and of Hawaii)> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h=
ale-pohaku.com> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.ht=
ml> > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Ass=
ociation> http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-g=
ekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http:/=
/lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>Lyle,<BR>
<BR>
There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the board=
of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and f=
urthermore no real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of an=
y real merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...=
I am judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ev=
er to this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would ha=
ve learned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you personally re=
sponsible for the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think t=
he GGA was beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position a=
s President. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason for=
the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let nature t=
ake it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out with some damn d=
ignity.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&nb=
sp; Jay "GG" Sommers<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR id=3DEC_stopSpelling>
From: lylepuente@optonline.net<BR>Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Dis=
tressed Geckos...<BR>To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com<BR>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 1=
2:16:20 -0400<BR><BR>GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. I=
t was never intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self int=
erests.=20
<DIV>The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the m=
embership addressed and will continue to do so.</DIV>
<DIV>This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and=
to help when we can.</DIV>
<DIV>Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also cr=
iticism freely.</DIV>
<DIV>I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that=
:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: Tahoma">"Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, fro=
m the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DEC_Apple-style-span face=3DTahoma size=3D3><SPAN class=
=3DEC_Apple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13px"><BR></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV>The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they hav=
e no interest in or unsubscribe.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>All are welcome</DIV>
<DIV>( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... )</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Lyle</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-style-span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: Helvetica">
<DIV>Lyle Puente</DIV>
<DIV>President</DIV>
<DIV>Global Gecko Association</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.gekkota.org/" target=3D_blank>http://www.gekkota=
.org</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3DEC_webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.mybrothersbanned.com/" target=3D_blank>http://ww=
w.MyBrothersBanned.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned" target=3D_blank>ht=
tp://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3DEC_webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:</DIV><BR class=3DEC_Ap=
ple-interchange-newline><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-style-span style=3D"WORD-SPA=
CING: 0px; FONT: 13px Tahoma; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT=
-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE:=
separate"> Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush =
it I meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The prob=
lem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over the la=
st week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This is what th=
e GGA was supposed to be...<BR> <BR> "The Global Gecko Associati=
on (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to=
anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist =
to the hobbyist.<BR> The GGA is an organization committed to promote =
interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, =
to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furthermo=
re, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by prov=
iding a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas=
. " <BR> <BR> Now before anyone gets upset.I have a ri=
ght to voice my opinion.I maintain one of the largest and most diverse geck=
onid species collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves a=
round geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of yo=
u know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is th=
e responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the interest=
in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being rediculous.<BR> <BR> =
; PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance.<BR>&=
nbsp;<BR> =
&nb=
sp; =
GGA...R.I.P.<BR> <BR> =
Very kindest regards,<BR> <BR> &nb=
sp; =
Jay "GG" Sommers<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR id=3DEC_EC_stopSpelling>
From: <A href=3D"mailto:jacobsommers@hotmail.com">jacobsommers@hotmail.com<=
/A><BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gekkota.c=
om</A><BR>Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...<BR>Dat=
e: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000<BR><BR> I would say next time=
to just flush it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<HR id=3DEC_EC_stopSpelling>
> From: <A href=3D"mailto:mhartley@ix.netcom.com">mhartley@ix.netcom.com=
</A><BR>> To: <A href=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gek=
kota.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Gecko=
s...<BR>> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800<BR>><SPAN class=3DEC_A=
pple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Hi Sherron,<BR>><SPAN class=
=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> I know a snake-keeper tha=
t kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converte=
d-space> </SPAN><BR>> chamber, because she doesn't like to kill the=
m "maually". I can find<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>=
<BR>> out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.<BR>><SPAN c=
lass=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Hope this helps,<BR>&=
gt; Melody<BR>><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>&=
gt; Sherron wrote:<BR>><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SP=
AN><BR>> > Aloha, Kind Friends<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-con=
verted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > I prefer to let nature take its cou=
rse usually, too. But sometimes you<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&=
nbsp;</SPAN><BR>> > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hur=
ts me too much, too. I<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><=
BR>> > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become =
apparent<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > t=
hat it is hopeless.<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</SPAN><BR>> > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling=
onto a tile floor.<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>=
> > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move he=
r out<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > of t=
he way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from<SPAN class=
=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > predators (other gec=
kos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-=
converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > hopes she would recover, and gav=
e her fruit and water. It was obvious it<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-sp=
ace> </SPAN><BR>> > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when s=
till, so we hoped for the best.<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converte=
d-space> </SPAN><BR>> > By the afternoon of the next day, howeve=
r, her eyes were badly sunken,<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> =
</SPAN><BR>> > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing=
black blotchy<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> =
> areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously<=
SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > was causin=
g her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours<SPAN class=3DE=
C_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > since her fall and she h=
ad started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-conve=
rted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > been any hope ... :(<BR>> ><SPA=
N class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > If we were st=
ill on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who<SPAN class=3DEC_=
Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > we did trust and who would=
have treated her properly. But here in the<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted=
-space> </SPAN><BR>> > islands, we don't have those resources. O=
ur real problem is finding<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SP=
AN><BR>> > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequat=
e medical<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > =
treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone<SPAN =
class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > for exotic anim=
als. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple=
-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > neurologist that knows anything=
about my disease on this island. My<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>=
</SPAN><BR>> > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once =
a month from the island<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>=
<BR>> > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who=
would<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > tre=
at my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and<SPAN class=
=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > animals is sadly lac=
king.<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>&=
gt; > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just tre=
at<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > cats &a=
mp; dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I<SPAN cla=
ss=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > really am not surp=
rised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew<SPAN class=3DEC_Appl=
e-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > how to take care of "exotics" =
like our pet rats in southern California,<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-s=
pace> </SPAN><BR>> > too. Finding good vets who know more than c=
ats & dogs has always been a<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</SPAN><BR>> > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far=
fewer to start with.<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&n=
bsp;</SPAN><BR>> > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from jus=
t any vet is<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> &g=
t; automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own<=
SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > vet was ou=
t of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she<SPAN class=3DE=
C_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > suffered a lot from it a=
nd it took her a long time to die as she<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-sp=
ace> </SPAN><BR>> > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even=
seem to believe that<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B=
R>> > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you=
are just<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > =
taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience<SPAN=
class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > has made me le=
ery of automatically trusting every vet.<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple=
-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > Worse, after doing some checkin=
g online, I find that it is illegal in<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-spac=
e> </SPAN><BR>> > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in H=
awaii (except with a permit<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </S=
PAN><BR>> > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade=
in them<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > w=
hatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any animal<SPAN c=
lass=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > banned for impor=
t/export that are deemed dangerous to the native<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-conv=
erted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > populations (native insects, in this=
case). So even if there were good<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&n=
bsp;</SPAN><BR>> > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if=
they to treat a day<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR=
>> > gecko since they cannot be legally kept.<BR>> ><SPAN class=
=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > So right now we are =
pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-co=
nverted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > and watch them die, no matter how =
long it takes, or we need something<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&=
nbsp;</SPAN><BR>> > else we can come up with to make their going easi=
er. Maybe my husband<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR=
>> > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I=
could<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > unl=
ess they were already partially crushed already ... or like this poor<SPAN =
class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > little baby we =
found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think<SPAN class=3DEC_App=
le-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > partially eaten by a day geck=
o who bit off more than it could chew and<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-s=
pace> </SPAN><BR>> > coughed her back up.<BR>> ><SPAN clas=
s=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_App=
le-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > We're sure she was in terribl=
e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted=
-space> </SPAN><BR>> > was worse than the pain she was suffering=
.<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> =
> I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would =
be<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > quicker=
and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were<SPAN class=3DE=
C_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > wrong, I regret it immen=
sely. I do know it is not at all kind for<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-s=
pace> </SPAN><BR>> > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. T=
hankfully, we have<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>&=
gt; > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day g=
eckos,<SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > it =
is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am<SPAN cla=
ss=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > desperate for a be=
tter choice. Can you help? :(<BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-=
space> </SPAN><BR>> > Mahalo, Sherron<BR>> ><SPAN class=3D=
EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-c=
onverted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > ---------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------<BR>> > Gecko aka Sherron,=
Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii)<BR>> > Homepage: <=
A href=3D"http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron" target=3D_blank>http://hale-pohak=
u.com/sherron</A> - <A href=3D"mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com">mailto:gecko@h=
ale-pohaku.com</A><BR>> > See our rats: <A href=3D"http://hale-pohaku=
.com/dennis/ratgallery.html" target=3D_blank>http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/=
ratgallery.html</A><BR>> ><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>&nbs=
p;</SPAN><BR>><SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>&g=
t; _______________________________________________<BR>> Global Gecko Ass=
ociation<BR>> <A href=3D"http://www.gekkota.com/" target=3D_blank>http:/=
/www.gekkota.com</A><BR>> Classifieds<BR>> <A href=3D"http://www.gekk=
ota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi" target=3D_blank>http://www.gekkota.com=
/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi</A><BR>> gecko mailing list<BR>> <A href=
=3D"mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com">gecko@lists.gekkota.com</A><BR>> <A =
href=3D"http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko" target=3D_blank>ht=
tp://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko</A><BR><BR>
<HR>
Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo=
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<HR>
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