[gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Jay Sommers
gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000
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I would say next time to just flush it.
> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [=
gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:1=
4 -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I thi=
nk) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maua=
lly". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > H=
ope this helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I=
prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > c=
an see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > =
can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > =
that it is hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ce=
iling onto a tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we trie=
d to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so sh=
e would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) an=
d foot traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and =
water. It was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when sti=
ll, so we hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, howe=
ver, her eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her ski=
n was developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeat=
edly for air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, =
it had been about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to det=
eriorate rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were s=
till on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trus=
t and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we =
don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who wou=
ld even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for huma=
ns is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals.=
I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that know=
s anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiolog=
ist who flies over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1=
/2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" pro=
blems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > =
> And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > =
cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > r=
eally am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > >=
how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > =
> too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a >=
> problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with=
.> > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > >=
automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > =
> vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > =
> suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suff=
ered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals r=
eally can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > > taking =
your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > > has mad=
e me leery of automatically trusting every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing s=
ome checking online, I find that it is illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & kee=
p any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > > for scientific researc=
h) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to k=
eep the native species, but not any animal > > banned for import/export tha=
t are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in th=
is case). So even if there were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking =
their license if they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally=
kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to=
stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need s=
omething > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my =
husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that =
I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like =
this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants,=
we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could=
chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're sure she was in terribl=
e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was worse than the pain she=
was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband fe=
lt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in=
pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at =
all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we h=
ave > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day ge=
ckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and =
I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(> > > > Mahalo, She=
rron> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Isl=
and of Hawaii)> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h=
ale-pohaku.com> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.ht=
ml> > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Ass=
ociation> http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-g=
ekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http:/=
/lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'> I would say next time to just flush =
it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<HR id=3DstopSpelling>
> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com<BR>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com<BR>&g=
t; Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...<BR>> Date:=
Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800<BR>> <BR>> Hi Sherron,<BR>> <BR>&g=
t; I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide <B=
R>> chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find=
<BR>> out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.<BR>> <BR>&=
gt; Hope this helps,<BR>> Melody<BR>> <BR>> Sherron wrote:<BR>>=
<BR>> > Aloha, Kind Friends<BR>> > <BR>> > I prefer to l=
et nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you <BR>> > can=
see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I <BR>&g=
t; > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become appar=
ent <BR>> > that it is hopeless.<BR>> > <BR>> > This poor=
girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile floor. <BR>> >=
; When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out <B=
R>> > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe f=
rom <BR>> > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot =
traffic, in the <BR>> > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit a=
nd water. It was obvious it <BR>> > hurt her to move, but she seemed =
okay when still, so we hoped for the best.<BR>> > <BR>> > By th=
e afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken, <BR>> =
> she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy <=
BR>> > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which ob=
viously <BR>> > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been =
about 18-20 hours <BR>> > since her fall and she had started to deter=
iorate rapidly. If there had <BR>> > been any hope ... :(<BR>> >=
; <BR>> > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to=
our vet who <BR>> > we did trust and who would have treated her prop=
erly. But here in the <BR>> > islands, we don't have those resources.=
Our real problem is finding <BR>> > someone who would even treat gec=
kos. Heck, finding adequate medical <BR>> > treatment for humans is a=
big problem on the outer islands, let alone <BR>> > for exotic anima=
ls. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a <BR>> > neurolog=
ist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My <BR>> > h=
usband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island <BR>=
> > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who wou=
ld <BR>> > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both peo=
ple and <BR>> > animals is sadly lacking.<BR>> > <BR>> > =
And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat <BR>&g=
t; > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all.=
But I <BR>> > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a v=
et who really knew <BR>> > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet=
rats in southern California, <BR>> > too. Finding good vets who know=
more than cats & dogs has always been a <BR>> > problem -- it's =
just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.<BR>> > <BR>=
> > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is <B=
R>> > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when=
our own <BR>> > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from hi=
s injection -- she <BR>> > suffered a lot from it and it took her a l=
ong time to die as she <BR>> > suffered. Not all vets have empathy no=
r even seem to believe that <BR>> > animals really can suffer pain. S=
o unless you know the vet, you are just <BR>> > taking your chances. =
Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience <BR>> > has made me=
leery of automatically trusting every vet.<BR>> > <BR>> > Wors=
e, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in <BR>> =
> Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a per=
mit <BR>> > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade=
in them <BR>> > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, b=
ut not any animal <BR>> > banned for import/export that are deemed da=
ngerous to the native <BR>> > populations (native insects, in this ca=
se). So even if there were good <BR>> > gecko vets, they would be ris=
king their license if they to treat a day <BR>> > gecko since they ca=
nnot be legally kept.<BR>> > <BR>> > So right now we are pretty=
much on our own. We either have to stand by <BR>> > and watch them d=
ie, no matter how long it takes, or we need something <BR>> > else we=
can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband <BR>> >=
; can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could <B=
R>> > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like =
this poor <BR>> > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten aliv=
e by ants, we think <BR>> > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit of=
f more than it could chew and <BR>> > coughed her back up.<BR>> &g=
t; <BR>> > <BR>> > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can=
't believe that freezing her <BR>> > was worse than the pain she was =
suffering.<BR>> > <BR>> > I didn't know what to do for them, bu=
t my husband felt freezing would be <BR>> > quicker and kinder than l=
etting them slowly die in pain. If we were <BR>> > wrong, I regret it=
immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for <BR>> > mammals; I ju=
st do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have <BR>> > encountered =
such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos, <BR>> > =
it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am <BR>&=
gt; > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(<BR>> > <BR>&=
gt; > Mahalo, Sherron<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ---------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>=
> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii)<=
BR>> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-p=
ohaku.com<BR>> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgalle=
ry.html<BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> ____________________________________=
___________<BR>> Global Gecko Association<BR>> http://www.gekkota.com=
<BR>> Classifieds<BR>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds=
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