[gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
Melody Hartley
gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Mon, 09 Jun 2008 08:16:58 -0800
Hi Sherron,
I have a couple older geckos that I help shed now and then, and I hold
them on their backs. They seem more comfortable that way, and I think
the heat from my hand helps too. I put my palm over their back and my
thumb on their belly and between their front legs, with the point of my
thumb toward their head. I hold gently, cause their lungs are under my
thumb. This leaves the feet up and the tail free ;-) However, these
are mad mads (Phelsuma madagascariensis madagascariensis) and about 8"
long, so a lot bigger to work with! I'm not sure how you'd manage that
with Li'i, but maybe you can think of something.
Blessings,
Melody
Sherron wrote:
> Aloha, Melody
>
> Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will
> see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)
>
> We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many
> problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a
> little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all
> those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her
> down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is
> really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second --
> she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away.
>
> Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I
> try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving target!
>
> And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps
> opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so
> I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we
> could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we
> aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried
> so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it
> moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on
> the gaping.
> I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional
> distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt
> her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress?
> Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't
> noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat
> at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning.
>
> Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured
> out already and knows what buttons to push? ;)
>
> Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived
> about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was
> North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was
> a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always
> loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders,
> timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything
> I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;)
>
> Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries!
> Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My
> best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to
> where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the
> way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)
>
> Thanks,
> Sherron
>
> Melody Hartley wrote:
>
>> Hi Sharron,
>>
>> I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.
>> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and
>> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of
>> someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also
>> getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's
>> pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I
>> think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your
>> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you
>> don't need the kind with D3 in it.
>>
>> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in
>> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers
>> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended
>> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-)
>>
>> You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting
>> tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!
>> Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if
>> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling
>> on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second
>> person holding the gecko.
>>
>> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and
>> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now
>> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D
>>
>> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't
>> ship them to Oregon though, LOL!
>>
>> Best of luck!
>> Melody
>>
>> Gecko wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha, Melody
>>>
>>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to
>>> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to
>>> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the
>>> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship
>>> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good
>>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the
>>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50
>>> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu
>>> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would
>>> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is
>>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little
>>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though!
>>>
>>> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always
>>> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss
>>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness!
>>> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them!
>>> Much easier! ;)
>>>
>>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her.
>>> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to
>>> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her
>>> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always
>>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!!
>>>
>>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved
>>> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real
>>> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon,
>>> but I sure like the name! ;)
>>>
>>> Mahalo,
>>> Sherron
>>>
>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aloha Sharron,
>>>>
>>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to
>>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch
>>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can
>>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that
>>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos
>>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one
>>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the
>>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give
>>>> you more info if you're interested.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any
>>>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go
>>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL!
>>>>
>>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on
>>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front
>>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out.
>>>>
>>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although
>>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h"
>>>> -- ah-LO-ah.
>>>>
>>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Melody
>>>>
>>>> Gecko wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aloha, Melody
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that
>>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper
>>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf
>>>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on
>>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we
>>>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out
>>>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the
>>>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and
>>>>> house. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Mahalo,
>>>>> Sherron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a
>>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full
>>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be
>>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a
>>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung
>>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the
>>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin
>>>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a
>>>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle
>>>>>>> up against to assist in the shed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keep us posted!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos
>>>>>>> roamed freely ;-]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest
>>>>>>> day gecko
>>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko
>>>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften
>>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the
>>>>>>> neck
>>>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a
>>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't
>>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
>>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right
>>>>>>> leg, and
>>>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of
>>>>>>> clumped
>>>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together
>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too.
>>>>>>> Although
>>>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just
>>>>>>> be the
>>>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has
>>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it
>>>>>>> has only
>>>>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil
>>>>>>> lead, and
>>>>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days,
>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started
>>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching
>>>>>>> her body
>>>>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still
>>>>>>> encased in
>>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is
>>>>>>> green underneath, not gray!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as
>>>>>>> they run
>>>>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,
>>>>>>> house -
>>>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris).
>>>>>>> But we
>>>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running
>>>>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to
>>>>>>> them first. :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at
>>>>>>>> home
>>>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't
>>>>>>>> know how
>>>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at
>>>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container
>>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost
>>>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the
>>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a
>>>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a
>>>>>>>> new pet
>>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
>>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
>>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
>>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little
>>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a
>>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the
>>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from
>>>>>>>> being very
>>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs &
>>>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in
>>>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has
>>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &
>>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm
>>>>>>>> her up.
>>>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she
>>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except
>>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another
>>>>>>>> matter. :(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky
>>>>>>>> little girl.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko
>>>>>>> having trouble shedding ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day
>>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning
>>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough
>>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the
>>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting
>>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't
>>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
>>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg,
>>>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of
>>>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg
>>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the
>>>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some
>>>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her
>>>>>>> movement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has
>>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has
>>>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use
>>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil
>>>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though,
>>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started
>>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her
>>>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still
>>>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.
>>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they
>>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,
>>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus
>>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she
>>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings
>>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots
>>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if
>>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at
>>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't
>>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1"
>>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic
>>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a
>>>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water
>>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours
>>>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her
>>>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new
>>>>>>>> pet here?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
>>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
>>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
>>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little
>>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when
>>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a
>>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest
>>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being
>>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs
>>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest
>>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has
>>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &
>>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her
>>>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she
>>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't
>>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except
>>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around
>>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another
>>>>>>>> matter. :(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky
>>>>>>>> little girl.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> l l
>>>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^
>>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^
>>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll
>>>>>>>> \\\ l l llll ///
>>>>>>>> l l llll \\\
>>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///
>>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~
>>>>>>>> ) ( )
>>>>>>>> ( ) (
>>>>>>>> ) ( )
>>>>>>>> lappert(a) robert(a)
>>>>>>>> hubert(a)
>>>>>>>> 17.50 yo
>>>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.
>>>>>>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **************
>>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
>>>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food.
>>>>>>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of
>>>>>>> Hawaii)
>>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron -
>>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
>>>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone
>>>>>>> <http://mobile.aol.com/productOverview.jsp?productOverview=aol-mobile-overview&?&ncid=aolmbd00030000000139>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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