Message

On = Jun 1, 2008, at 11:47 PM, Tracy Vicente wrote:

Is this = going through?

Lyle, I = cc'd this to you because I didnt see it come through on the list, though = I receive emails from listserv...

can you please post this? I think it will = help this gir.

Thanks, = Tracy

=A0

RE: gold dust = hatchling:

=A0

I had to reply, I had an incident years ago with a rescue = grandis and the first shed was the issue with this = one.

as much as i was afraid i = was killing the poor thing, I was vigilant with LOTS of wet paper towels = and qtips.

=A0

Here are links to the whole story:

Day one: rescue:

http://www= .gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/surprise.jpg

=A0

Day 2: much relief and on the way to recovery (note the lid = of fruit, that is from one of those TINY pill = bottles)

http:= //www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/grandisday2_2.jpg

=A0

and, this gecko grew to be a full sized adult.... = BUT

http://w= ww.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/DSC00010sm.jpg

=A0

(you can see all of Esmeralda's photos at=A0=A0 =A0http://www.gexfiles.co= m/album/grandisbaby/=A0=A0=A0 )

=A0

I literally had to shed her by hand every = time, right up until the day she passed away 5 years later. It was a = labor of love, she would squawk and bite, but she wouldnt ever shed on = her own, if I left it, it would have shortened her life even more. Even = though her life was short to begin with, it would have been a lot = shorter.

=A0

So, I think you need to help this little = one, get out the qtips and paper towels and prepare for the little one = to do the death roll a lot.

=A0

I hope this helps!

Tracy

=A0

-----Original = Message-----
From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gek= kota.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Puente
Sent: Sunday, = June 01, 2008 9:35 PM
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
= Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko = having trouble shedding "egg skin"

You have a = tough job!
Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit = flies to make them easier catches?

You might need to mist = her well and try a fine tweezer to get that skin off?
=

Lyle
Lyle = Puente

President

Global Gecko Association
=
http://www.gekkota.org
=

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com

http://www.myspace.com/My= BrothersBanned
=
On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote:

We found a tiny hatchling on = May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish = skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was = dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is = spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do = the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from = being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs = & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in = the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed = to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and = was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to = help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", = but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. =

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we = don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except = for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her = neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. = :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a = spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron =

<moz-screenshot.jpg>
--=20

=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron=
 - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.=
com/dennis/ratgallery.html

= --Boundary_(ID_gQrm5CJz2l5ONiYEIonrCA)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 17:50:26 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:50:26 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" In-Reply-To: <18F688F4-EC0E-4915-BF05-2F56D3807CB4@optonline.net> References: <48432D89.4060609@gmail.com> <18F688F4-EC0E-4915-BF05-2F56D3807CB4@optonline.net> Message-ID: <484424D2.3020202@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020103020504040709070805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We did try a little water on a Q-tip and worked on the ring around her neck. It softened a little, but didn't split. My husband was able to barely get hold of it with tweezers to give it a little pull, but it wouldn't split -- and we couldn't get anything in to try to cut it. We are so afraid of doing more damage to her. Her leg was damaged during hatching -- or she might have fallen, as we found her in the bathroom window in the bottom of the sill, while her egg and that of her dead sibling were caught midway up on the top of the open window. Apparently her hatching efforts or another gecko caused the eggs to dislodge and they fell. The dead sibling was not fully formed yet. Although I have not observed her eating, we know she must be. I gather her little tiny bugs off the fallen leaves from our orchid tree every day, plus aphids off some of the greenery she likes (we don't spray poisons), plus the papaya with the fruit flies. And she pooped on me yesterday after she crawled up onto me. ;) But there must be an art to catching the fruit flies & injuring them! I've done that with larger bugs before, but all I have done with these is crush them. They are so tiny, they just squish when I try to catch them. Thanks, Sherron Lyle Puente wrote: > You have a tough job! > Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit flies to make them > easier catches? > You might need to mist her well and try a fine tweezer to get that > skin off? > > Lyle > > Lyle Puente > President > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.org > > http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com > http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned > > On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote: > > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped > and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out > of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, > but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the > hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, > but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect > for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around > her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, > so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to > have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it > around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see > how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around > her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is > several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little > girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------020103020504040709070805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We did try a little water on a Q-tip and worked on the ring around her neck. It softened a little, but didn't split. My husband was able to barely get hold of it with tweezers to give it a little pull, but it wouldn't split -- and we couldn't get anything in to try to cut it.

We are so afraid of doing more damage to her. Her leg was damaged during hatching -- or she might have fallen, as we found her in the bathroom window in the bottom of the sill, while her egg and that of her dead sibling were caught midway up on the top of the open window. Apparently her hatching efforts or another gecko caused the eggs to dislodge and they fell. The dead sibling was not fully formed yet.

Although I have not observed her eating, we know she must be. I gather her little tiny bugs off the fallen leaves from our orchid tree every day, plus aphids off some of the greenery she likes (we don't spray poisons), plus the papaya with the fruit flies. And she pooped on me yesterday after she crawled up onto me. ;)

But there must be an art to catching the fruit flies & injuring them! I've done that with larger bugs before, but all I have done with these is crush them. They are so tiny, they just squish when I try to catch them.

Thanks, Sherron

Lyle Puente wrote:

You have a tough job!
Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit flies to make them easier catches?

You might need to mist her well and try a fine tweezer to get that skin off?

Lyle
Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com

http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned
On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote:

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

<moz-screenshot.jpg>
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

--------------020103020504040709070805-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 20:08:29 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:08:29 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" In-Reply-To: <484424D2.3020202@gmail.com> References: <48432D89.4060609@gmail.com> <18F688F4-EC0E-4915-BF05-2F56D3807CB4@optonline.net> <484424D2.3020202@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4844452D.20902@ix.netcom.com> Hi Sherron, Try catching some fruit flies and putting them in the refrigerator for a few minutes. That slows them down, and the gecko might be able to catch them. Also, the humid chamber that Elizabeth wrote about has always worked for me with geckos that have trouble shedding. Best of luck! Melody Gecko wrote: > We did try a little water on a Q-tip and worked on the ring around her > neck. It softened a little, but didn't split. My husband was able to > barely get hold of it with tweezers to give it a little pull, but it > wouldn't split -- and we couldn't get anything in to try to cut it. > > We are so afraid of doing more damage to her. Her leg was damaged during > hatching -- or she might have fallen, as we found her in the bathroom > window in the bottom of the sill, while her egg and that of her dead > sibling were caught midway up on the top of the open window. Apparently > her hatching efforts or another gecko caused the eggs to dislodge and > they fell. The dead sibling was not fully formed yet. > > Although I have not observed her eating, we know she must be. I gather > her little tiny bugs off the fallen leaves from our orchid tree every > day, plus aphids off some of the greenery she likes (we don't spray > poisons), plus the papaya with the fruit flies. And she pooped on me > yesterday after she crawled up onto me. ;) > > But there must be an art to catching the fruit flies & injuring them! > I've done that with larger bugs before, but all I have done with these > is crush them. They are so tiny, they just squish when I try to catch them. > > Thanks, Sherron > > Lyle Puente wrote: > >> You have a tough job! >> Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit flies to make them >> easier catches? >> You might need to mist her well and try a fine tweezer to get that >> skin off? >> >> Lyle >> >> Lyle Puente >> President >> Global Gecko Association >> http://www.gekkota.org >> >> http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com >> http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned >> >> On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote: >> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out >> of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, >> but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the >> hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, >> but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect >> for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around >> her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to >> have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it >> around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around >> her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is >> several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little >> girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> >> >>-- >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >>Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >> >> >> > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 19:21:51 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:21:51 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060102020301050201080004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier. This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough. She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray! We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( Mahalo, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Hello Sherron ~ > > Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home > because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big > this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. > Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container with a damp > washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you > will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the > container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings > of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. > > What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? > > Elizabeth > > >> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble >> shedding "egg skin"* >> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped > and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out > of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, > but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the > hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, > but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect > for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around > her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, > so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to > have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it > around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see > how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around > her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is > several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little > girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > * > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > * > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------060102020301050201080004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

--------------060102020301050201080004-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 19:41:08 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:41:08 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" In-Reply-To: <000401c8c463$68867db0$0201a8c0@HP540n> References: <000401c8c463$68867db0$0201a8c0@HP540n> Message-ID: <48443EC4.3030404@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050406050702080500010908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Tracy What's a death roll? Your pics are great. We kept thinking that she would eventually shed her skin -- and we weren't sure she was even going to survive through the first few days. It has been a surprise each day when I come downstairs and she is still there, spunky as ever until the last two days. ;) We are so afraid of "breaking" her, as her arms are about the size of pencil lead and I have to use a leaf to pick her up. We thought we had broken her left arm when my husband was trying to soften the skin around her neck as she didn't use it for a long time after we put her back in, but we think it must have been the dried skin holding it tight. We have her "soaking" in the humidity chamber right now -- which she doesn't like at all -- and she is certainly more limber. She went right for the wall and keeps trying to crawl up -- unsuccessfully, of course, since it is wet! We are really worried, but will try the tweezers again. We really want her get through this -- she is the spunkiest little day gecko we have seen! Mahalo, Sherron Tracy Vicente wrote: > Is this going through? > Lyle, I cc'd this to you because I didnt see it come through on the > list, though I receive emails from listserv... > can you please post this? I think it will help this gir. > Thanks, Tracy > > RE: gold dust hatchling: > > I had to reply, I had an incident years ago with a rescue grandis and > the first shed was the issue with this one. > as much as i was afraid i was killing the poor thing, I was vigilant > with LOTS of wet paper towels and qtips. > > Here are links to the whole story: > Day one: rescue: > http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/surprise.jpg > > Day 2: much relief and on the way to recovery (note the lid of fruit, > that is from one of those TINY pill bottles) > http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/grandisday2_2.jpg > > and, this gecko grew to be a full sized adult.... BUT > http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/DSC00010sm.jpg > > (you can see all of Esmeralda's photos at > http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/ ) > > > I literally had to shed her by hand every time, right up until the day > she passed away 5 years later. It was a labor of love, she would > squawk and bite, but she wouldnt ever shed on her own, if I left it, > it would have shortened her life even more. Even though her life was > short to begin with, it would have been a lot shorter. > > So, I think you need to help this little one, get out the qtips and > paper towels and prepare for the little one to do the death roll a lot. > > I hope this helps! > Tracy > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] *On Behalf Of *Lyle Puente > *Sent:* Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:35 PM > *To:* gecko@lists.gekkota.com > *Subject:* Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko > having trouble shedding "egg skin" > > You have a tough job! > Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit flies to make > them easier catches? > You might need to mist her well and try a fine tweezer to get that > skin off? > > Lyle > > Lyle Puente > President > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.org > > http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com > http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned > > On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote: > > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little > underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when > they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a > problem with her right leg, but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of > the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very > mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & > aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in > the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has > managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. > It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a > bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't > see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except > for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around > her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another > matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky > little girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------050406050702080500010908 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Tracy

What's a death roll?

Your pics are great. We kept thinking that she would eventually shed her skin -- and we weren't sure she was even going to survive through the first few days. It has been a surprise each day when I come downstairs and she is still there, spunky as ever until the last two days. ;)

We are so afraid of "breaking" her, as her arms are about the size of pencil lead and I have to use a leaf to pick her up. We thought we had broken her left arm when my husband was trying to soften the skin around her neck as she didn't use it for a long time after we put her back in, but we think it must have been the dried skin holding it tight.

We have her "soaking" in the humidity chamber right now -- which she doesn't like at all -- and she is certainly more limber. She went right for the wall and keeps trying to crawl up -- unsuccessfully, of course, since it is wet!

We are really worried, but will try the tweezers again. We really want her get through this -- she is the spunkiest little day gecko we have seen!

Mahalo,
Sherron

Tracy Vicente wrote:

Message
Is this going through?

Lyle, I cc'd this to you because I didnt see it come through on the list, though I receive emails from listserv...

can you please post this? I think it will help this gir.

Thanks, Tracy

RE: gold dust hatchling:

I had to reply, I had an incident years ago with a rescue grandis and the first shed was the issue with this one.

as much as i was afraid i was killing the poor thing, I was vigilant with LOTS of wet paper towels and qtips.

Here are links to the whole story:

Day one: rescue:

http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/surprise.jpg

Day 2: much relief and on the way to recovery (note the lid of fruit, that is from one of those TINY pill bottles)

http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/grandisday2_2.jpg

and, this gecko grew to be a full sized adult.... BUT

http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/DSC00010sm.jpg

(you can see all of Esmeralda's photos at http://www.gexfiles.com/album/grandisbaby/ )

I literally had to shed her by hand every time, right up until the day she passed away 5 years later. It was a labor of love, she would squawk and bite, but she wouldnt ever shed on her own, if I left it, it would have shortened her life even more. Even though her life was short to begin with, it would have been a lot shorter.

So, I think you need to help this little one, get out the qtips and paper towels and prepare for the little one to do the death roll a lot.

I hope this helps!

Tracy
-----Original Message-----
From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Puente
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:35 PM
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"

You have a tough job!
Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit flies to make them easier catches?

You might need to mist her well and try a fine tweezer to get that skin off?

Lyle
Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com

http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned
On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote:

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

<moz-screenshot.jpg>
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

--------------050406050702080500010908-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 19:52:39 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:52:39 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> ----------MB_8CA92F8F74F8C33_14C8_27B8_webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And Aloha Sherron ~ Thanks for these details.? Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours.? Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container.? Watch the water droplets form.? After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split. Another idea!? Have something like?a twig, small branch,?or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed. I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! Keep us posted! Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-] Elizabeth Aloha, Elizabeth She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier. This sounds like it might work!? If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.? We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.? She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.? And she is green underneath, not gray! We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( Mahalo, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: Hello Sherron ~ Try the humidity chamber trick. ?I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! ?However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. ?Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. ?Place this near a light. ?Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. ?After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. What is the problem with her right leg? ?Might you have a new pet here? Elizabeth ? Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: ???gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) Sender: ???gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com To: ???gecko@lists.gekkota.com We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron -----Original Message----- From: Gecko To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Aloha, Elizabeth She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier. This sounds like it might work!? If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.? We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.? She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.? And she is green underneath, not gray! We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( Mahalo, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: Hello Sherron ~ Try the humidity chamber trick. ?I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! ?However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. ?Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. ?Place this near a light. ?Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. ?After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. What is the problem with her right leg? ?Might you have a new pet here? Elizabeth ? Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: ???gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) Sender: ???gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com To: ???gecko@lists.gekkota.com We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ ?????????l ??????????????????????l ???????????????????????l ????????????? ??^^ ?/..\ ?????????????^^ ?/..\ ?^^ ??????????^^ ?/..\ ?^^ ???????l ?l ??^^ ?????????????llll ?????????????????????\\\ ? ???????l ?l ???????????????????llll ?????????????????????/// ???????l ?l ???????????????????llll ?????????????????????\\\ ???????l ?l ?~~ ?????????????llll ?????????????????????/// ??~~ ?( ???????????????~~ ???) ??~~ ????????~~ ??( ???~~ ???????????) ??????????????????( ???????????????????????????) ????????( ???????????????????????) ??????????????????????( ???????????) ??????????????????( ???????????????????????????) ?????lappert(a) ??????????????robert(a) ???????????????????hubert(a) ??????17.50 yo ???????????????????r.i.p. ???????????????????????????r.i.p. ????? ???????????????????????(All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) ??????? ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html ----------MB_8CA92F8F74F8C33_14C8_27B8_webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

And Aloha Sherron ~

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

-----Original Message-----
From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone.

----------MB_8CA92F8F74F8C33_14C8_27B8_webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 19:56:28 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:56:28 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on gecko who fell Message-ID: <4844425C.8000309@gmail.com> Aloha, I have another adult gecko with a problem, although I suspect there is nothing we can do for her. We found her yesterday, but hoped she would be better today. We think she must have fallen from the ceiling, as we found her on the tile floor in our kitchen and she was moving weakly. I set her down some papaya and she wiggled behind a box. Later, we found her on the floor near the refrigerator and she was not interested in moving at all. We tried picking her up with a large ti leaf, but she feebly pulled herself up onto my husband's hand and then fell into my hands. We put her in a cage with a leaf to hide under along with fruit and water and hoped that she didn't have any internal injuries. She seemed happier hanging from the side of the cage and looked pretty good this morning. But a little while ago, she fell off the side onto the floor of the cage onto her back and lay there gasping for breath. I'm not sure if they can breathe properly on their backs, so we turned her over -- which stressed her, but she does seem to be able to breathe easier on her stomach. I also misted her as I thought it might help her breathe and she seems a little better now. But is there anything else I can do for her besides just wait and hope she is just having pain from broken ribs and not from internal injuries? Thanks, Sherron -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 20:15:21 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Laurence Frabotta) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:15:21 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Re: Up Underwoodisaurus! Message-ID: ------=_Part_12251_955095.1212434121140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chuck, Your statement about the inclusion of sp. *milli *rendering *Nephrurus*polyphyletic (READ: biphyletic) would only be correct if additional taxa (not *Nephrurus* or *Underwoodisaurus*) would be "lumped in" by this taxonomic change. As Dr. Werner states, Melville et al (2004) recovered a phylogeny with *(N.) milli* as the sister taxon to the clade containing four *Nephrurus* *sensu stricto* taxa, thus the clade containing these five species and their most recent common ancestor (MRCA) is monophyletic. I'd think with your pedigree you would know that you don't have to refer Underwoodisaurus milii to Nephrurus. I must admit I haven't read all the papers you mention but from your outline and my understanding of current views in systematics and phylogeny you want genera to be monophyletic. If U. milii were added to Nephrurus then it would be biphyletic. That indicates to me that milii should be kept in Underwoodisaurus. If scientists don't agree with a paper then they don't accept it's conclusions and if enough people don't agree with a paper then the conclusions are rejected. I believe that should be the case here. Since phylogenetic reconstruction is dependent on synapomorphic (shared derived) character states, one could argue that the lack of the synapomorphic tail morphology of *Nephrurus sensu stricto* in sp. *milli*could be used as evidence to continue the recognition of Underwoodisaurus. Hope this helps clarify the nuance. Best, Laurence Laurence Frabotta, PhD Director, Special Research Programs The City University of New York ------=_Part_12251_955095.1212434121140 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chuck,

Your statement about the inclusion of sp. milli rendering Nephrurus polyphyletic (READ: biphyletic) would only be correct if additional taxa (not Nephrurus or Underwoodisaurus) would be "lumped in" by this taxonomic change. As Dr. Werner states, Melville et al (2004) recovered a phylogeny with (N.) milli as the sister taxon to the clade containing four Nephrurus sensu stricto taxa, thus the clade containing these five species and their most recent common ancestor (MRCA) is monophyletic.

I'd think with your pedigree you would know that you
don't have to refer Underwoodisaurus milii to
Nephrurus. I must admit I haven't read all the papers
you mention but from your outline and my understanding
of current views in systematics and phylogeny you want
genera to be monophyletic. If U. milii were added to
Nephrurus then it would be biphyletic. That indicates
to me that milii should be kept in Underwoodisaurus.

If scientists don't agree with a paper then they don't
accept it's conclusions and if enough people don't
agree with a paper then the conclusions are rejected.
I believe that should be the case here.

Since phylogenetic reconstruction is dependent on synapomorphic (shared derived) character states, one could argue that the lack of the synapomorphic tail morphology of Nephrurus sensu stricto in sp. milli could be used as evidence to continue the recognition of Underwoodisaurus. Hope this helps clarify the nuance.

Best,
Laurence

Laurence Frabotta, PhD
Director, Special Research Programs
The City University of New York
------=_Part_12251_955095.1212434121140-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 23:55:01 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 12:55:01 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48447A45.7010508@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060909000502080804050306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth We have her soaking in the "hot tub" now. The temperature is about 83 F, which seems to be as warm as we can get it without melting the plastic from being too close to the lamp. She really doesn't like being there, whether it is because of the dampness or just not being in her familiar surroundings with her leaves and things, I'm not sure. Maybe she doesn't like the texture of the washcloth. She went straight for the walls and tried to crawl up them, and has continued to do so. Much of the time, she just moves her arms and legs (which she can actually now do in the increased moisture level) without moving her body, but she has managed to crawl about half-way up the wall before sliding back down. I worry about the energy she is expending, but she is determined. Update: my husband tried the tweezers again (my hands shake too much) and we managed to get the skin off her head! Also part of it off one arm and a big hunk off her stomach. We had to keep wetting her and she ran all over the place -- we can't actually "hold" her as I think we would break her arms if we tried, so we just try to corral her between our fingers! And after being in the sauna, she is really active!! But we are so happy to have some success, just wish it had gone faster. We put her back in the sauna to help loosen up the skin as it had started to harden again. This time she isn't even trying to crawl the walls. Smart cookie -- she is just sitting in the middle where we put her. She already has learned the drill. Maybe the next tweezer session will go easier. Ha, ha. ;) Having "wild" geckos all over is one of the things I love most about living in Hawaii! We have geckos everywhere! Most prominently the day geckos, but a fair number of house geckos and a surprising number of mourning geckos, too. When the day geckos were first introduced into Hawaii a few years back they thought it might be the end of the some of the original varieties. However, we have found that the mourning geckos are making a bit of a comeback, even though they are at a distinct physical disadvantage. But they are much smarter -- very quick witted, fast, determined and will stand up to someone twice their size! I was so amazed when I saw them down in the bananas arch up their backs like cats and stare down big old day geckos thrice their size over papaya! And they quickly learn that I mean them no harm and will take mealworms out of my hand, even the ones that don't live in the house! They are really fun to watch! But that doesn't mean I don't love the day geckos, too. They are so endearing because they look at you & interact with you so much. As I sit and type this, I have a little one named Sneaker Girl who is sitting between some papers on the table next to my laptop watching me. I have water & papaya out for her and give her an occasional mealworm. She used to live outside on the lanai, but decided to come in one day and staked out my table. She sits here for a few hours and then goes off and does other things. She's called Sneaker Girl because we had a friend over who wore bright green sneakers and the gecko was attracted to them so much (I have no idea why) that she climbed up on the lanai table leg and jumped over onto the sneakers. Luckily our friend likes geckos, too. ;) We are really keeping our fingers crossed!! ;) Mahalo, Sherron elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: > And Aloha Sherron ~ > > Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp > for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and > place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets > form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough > to start a split. > > Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section > of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to > assist in the shed. > > I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! > > Keep us posted! > > Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed > freely ;-] > > Elizabeth > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day > gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning > gecko hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to > pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck > skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a > heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't > keeping the humidity up high enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, > and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg > together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the > joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some > of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has > only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, > and the skin seems to fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her > body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. > And she is green underneath, not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they > run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus > lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she > couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings > outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots > of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we > don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know >> how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" >> at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic >> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. >> Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on >> the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps >> you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with >> a tweezers or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >> here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest >> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs >> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >> managed to catch any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >> matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> little girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gecko > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am > Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > trouble shedding ... > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko > hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko > hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to > pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck > skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating > pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the > humidity up high enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and > her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped > together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a > unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in > watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin > being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only > recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her > limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the > skin seems to fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when > the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really > becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and > forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, > although it has come off some of the back. And she is green > underneath, not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run > all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - > Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we > had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for > herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a > better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around > inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container >> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can >> remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers >> or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out >> of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right >> leg, but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids >> I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit >> flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch >> any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems >> to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it >> around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for >> around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck >> is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> little girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> * >> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >> * >> l l l >> >> ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ >> l l ^^ llll \\\ >> l l llll /// >> l l llll \\\ >> l l ~~ llll /// >> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >> ) ( ) >> ( ) ( >> ) ( ) >> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >> 17.50 yo r.i.p. >> r.i.p. >> >> (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************** >> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >> Florence" on AOL Food. >> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone > . > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------060909000502080804050306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

We have her soaking in the "hot tub" now. The temperature is about 83 F, which seems to be as warm as we can get it without melting the plastic from being too close to the lamp. She really doesn't like being there, whether it is because of the dampness or just not being in her familiar surroundings with her leaves and things, I'm not sure. Maybe she doesn't like the texture of the washcloth.

She went straight for the walls and tried to crawl up them, and has continued to do so. Much of the time, she just moves her arms and legs (which she can actually now do in the increased moisture level) without moving her body, but she has managed to crawl about half-way up the wall before sliding back down. I worry about the energy she is expending, but she is determined.

Update: my husband tried the tweezers again (my hands shake too much) and we managed to get the skin off her head! Also part of it off one arm and a big hunk off her stomach. We had to keep wetting her and she ran all over the place -- we can't actually "hold" her as I think we would break her arms if we tried, so we just try to corral her between our fingers! And after being in the sauna, she is really active!! But we are so happy to have some success, just wish it had gone faster. We put her back in the sauna to help loosen up the skin as it had started to harden again. This time she isn't even trying to crawl the walls. Smart cookie -- she is just sitting in the middle where we put her. She already has learned the drill. Maybe the next tweezer session will go easier. Ha, ha. ;)

Having "wild" geckos all over is one of the things I love most about living in Hawaii! We have geckos everywhere! Most prominently the day geckos, but a fair number of house geckos and a surprising number of mourning geckos, too. When the day geckos were first introduced into Hawaii a few years back they thought it might be the end of the some of the original varieties. However, we have found that the mourning geckos are making a bit of a comeback, even though they are at a distinct physical disadvantage. But they are much smarter -- very quick witted, fast, determined and will stand up to someone twice their size! I was so amazed when I saw them down in the bananas arch up their backs like cats and stare down big old day geckos thrice their size over papaya! And they quickly learn that I mean them no harm and will take mealworms out of my hand, even the ones that don't live in the house! They are really fun to watch!

But that doesn't mean I don't love the day geckos, too. They are so endearing because they look at you & interact with you so much. As I sit and type this, I have a little one named Sneaker Girl who is sitting between some papers on the table next to my laptop watching me. I have water & papaya out for her and give her an occasional mealworm. She used to live outside on the lanai, but decided to come in one day and staked out my table. She sits here for a few hours and then goes off and does other things. She's called Sneaker Girl because we had a friend over who wore bright green sneakers and the gecko was attracted to them so much (I have no idea why) that she climbed up on the lanai table leg and jumped over onto the sneakers. Luckily our friend likes geckos, too. ;)

We are really keeping our fingers crossed!! ;)

Mahalo, Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:

And Aloha Sherron ~

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

-----Original Message-----
From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone.

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

--------------060909000502080804050306-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 2 23:57:59 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:57:59 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA931B3CED9090-C58-14BC@webmail-da08.sysops.aol.com> ----------MB_8CA931B3D32B46B_C58_2A16_webmail-da08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck?? I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a table.? Hope that something works for you both. Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: elizabethfreer@aol.com To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... And Aloha Sherron ~ ? Thanks for these details.? Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours.? Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container.? Watch the water droplets form.? After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split. Another idea!? Have something like?a twig, small branch,?or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed. I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! ? Keep us posted! ? Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-] ? Elizabeth Aloha, Elizabeth She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier. This sounds like it might work!? If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.? We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.? She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.? And she is green underneath, not gray! We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( Mahalo, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: Hello Sherron ~ Try the humidity chamber trick. ?I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! ?However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. ?Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. ?Place this near a light. ?Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. ?After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. What is the problem with her right leg? ?Might you have a new pet here? Elizabeth ? Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: ???gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) Sender: ???gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com To: ???gecko@lists.gekkota.com We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron -----Original Message----- From: Gecko To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Aloha, Elizabeth She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier. This sounds like it might work!? If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.? We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.? She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.? And she is green underneath, not gray! We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( Mahalo, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: Hello Sherron ~ Try the humidity chamber trick. ?I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! ?However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. ?Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. ?Place this near a light. ?Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. ?After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. What is the problem with her right leg? ?Might you have a new pet here? Elizabeth ? Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: ???gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) Sender: ???gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com To: ???gecko@lists.gekkota.com We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ ?????????l ??????????????????????l ???????????????????????l ????????????? ??^^ ?/..\ ?????????????^^ ?/..\ ?^^ ??????????^^ ?/..\ ?^^ ???????l ?l ??^^ ?????????????llll ?????????????????????\\\ ? ???????l ?l ???????????????????llll ?????????????????????/// ???????l ?l ???????????????????llll ?????????????????????\\\ ???????l ?l ?~~ ?????????????llll ?????????????????????/// ??~~ ?( ???????????????~~ ???) ??~~ ????????~~ ??( ???~~ ???????????) ??????????????????( ???????????????????????????) ????????( ???????????????????????) ??????????????????????( ???????????) ??????????????????( ???????????????????????????) ?????lappert(a) ??????????????robert(a) ???????????????????hubert(a) ??????17.50 yo ???????????????????r.i.p. ???????????????????????????r.i.p. ????? ???????????????????????(All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) ??????? ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone. ----------MB_8CA931B3D32B46B_C58_2A16_webmail-da08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that something works for you both.

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: elizabethfreer@aol.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...

And Aloha Sherron ~

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone.

Stay informed, get connected and more Subj:[gecko]Re: Question on gecko who fell; and on euthanasia > Date:6/2/08 4:04:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Ah, our poor little girl started having trouble breathing and her color > started turning really bad -- she started getting black blotches on her > skin and her eyes started sinking. She would gasp for air every so > often, obviously in distress. So it became obvious she did have internal > injuries and was not going to make it after all. > > As long as she seemed to be comfortable, at least when she wasn't > moving, we held out hopes of it just being a broken bone or two. > Especially since her color was still good this morning and she was > breathing okay. > > But when we have done the only thing we could think of to ease her pain > and distress, and that was to put her in the freezer. Since she is a > reptile, we are hoping that was a kind thing to do since her body > temperature should fall quickly. It is not something we would do with a > mammal. > > Can anyone advise on a better way to put a gecko out of their misery? > As long as there is hope and they aren't in obvious distress, we prefer > to try to keep them quiet, out of harm's way (from cats, dogs, mongoose > or other geckos) and hope for the best. But we do have occasion when > they are in obvious pain and it is no favor to them to keep them alive. > Once we had a little house gecko that someone had tried to eat and whose > skin was partially gone and the ants had gotten to before I found him. > He was e but beyond saving, and obviously in pain, and we froze him as > we did not know what else to do. > > If there is something better we could do for them, we would like to > know, as unfortunately it is likely to come up again. The day geckos do > prey on our other two species, as well as their own youngsters. :( > > Thanks so much, > Sherron > > Sherron wrote: > > Aloha, > > > > I have another adult gecko with a problem, although I suspect there is > > nothing we can do for her. We found her yesterday, but hoped she would > > be better today. > > > > We think she must have fallen from the ceiling, as we found her on the > > tile floor in our kitchen and she was moving weakly. I set her down > > some papaya and she wiggled behind a box. > > > > Later, we found her on the floor near the refrigerator and she was not > > interested in moving at all. We tried picking her up with a large ti > > leaf, but she feebly pulled herself up onto my husband's hand and then > > fell into my hands. We put her in a cage with a leaf to hide under > > along with fruit and water and hoped that she didn't have any internal > > injuries. She seemed happier hanging from the side of the cage and > > looked pretty good this morning. > > > > But a little while ago, she fell off the side onto the floor of the > > cage onto her back and lay there gasping for breath. I'm not sure if > > they can breathe properly on their backs, so we turned her over -- > > which stressed her, but she does seem to be able to breathe easier on > > her stomach. I also misted her as I thought it might help her breathe > > and she seems a little better now. > > > > But is there anything else I can do for her besides just wait and hope > > she is just having pain from broken ribs and not from internal injuries? > > > > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_c88.2bfb9fd7.35761e95_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sherron ~

Sorry to hear about this poor soul. You obviously have geckos' bes= t interests at heart. May she rest in peace.

I don't have the answer to your euthanasia question, but I'm certain som= eone on this list might.

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Re: Question= on gecko who fell; and on euthanasia
Date:6/2/08 4:04:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Ah, our poor little girl started having trouble breathing and her color=20
started turning really bad -- she started getting black blotches on her=20
skin and her eyes started sinking. She would gasp for air every so=20
often, obviously in distress. So it became obvious she did have internal= =20
injuries and was not going to make it after all.

As long as she seemed to be comfortable, at least when she wasn't=20
moving, we held out hopes of it just being a broken bone or two.=20
Especially since her color was still good this morning and she was=20
breathing okay.

But when we have done the only thing we could think of to ease her pain=20
and distress, and that was to put her in the freezer. Since she is a=20
reptile, we are hoping that was a kind thing to do since her body=20
temperature should fall quickly. It is not something we would do with a=20
mammal.

Can anyone advise on a better way to put a gecko out of their misery? &n= bsp;
As long as there is hope and they aren't in obvious distress, we prefer=20
to try to keep them quiet, out of harm's way (from cats, dogs, mongoose=20
or other geckos) and hope for the best. But we do have occasion wh= en=20
they are in obvious pain and it is no favor to them to keep them alive.=20
Once we had a little house gecko that someone had tried to eat and whose= =20
skin was partially gone and the ants had gotten to before I found him.=20
He was e but beyond saving, and obviously in pain, and we froze him as=20
we did not know what else to do.

If there is something better we could do for them, we would like to=20
know, as unfortunately it is likely to come up again. The day geck= os do=20
prey on our other two species, as well as their own youngsters. :(

Thanks so much,
Sherron

Sherron wrote:
> Aloha,
>
> I have another adult gecko with a problem, although I suspect there= is=20
> nothing we can do for her. We found her yesterday, but hoped she wo= uld=20
> be better today.
>
> We think she must have fallen from the ceiling, as we found her on=20= the=20
> tile floor in our kitchen and she was moving weakly. I set her down= =20
> some papaya and she wiggled behind a box.
>
> Later, we found her on the floor near the refrigerator and she was=20= not=20
> interested in moving at all. We tried picking her up with a large t= i=20
> leaf, but she feebly pulled herself up onto my husband's hand and t= hen=20
> fell into my hands. We put her in a cage with a leaf to hide under=20
> along with fruit and water and hoped that she didn't have any inter= nal=20
> injuries. She seemed happier hanging from the side of the cage and=20
> looked pretty good this morning.
>
> But a little while ago, she fell off the side onto the floor of the= =20
> cage onto her back and lay there gasping for breath. I'm not sure i= f=20
> they can breathe properly on their backs, so we turned her over --=20
> which stressed her, but she does seem to be able to breathe easier=20= on=20
> her stomach. I also misted her as I thought it might help her breat= he=20
> and she seems a little better now.
>
> But is there anything else I can do for her besides just wait and h= ope=20
> she is just having pain from broken ribs and not from internal inju= ries?
>
> Thanks, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_c88.2bfb9fd7.35761e95_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Tue Jun 3 07:42:12 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:42:12 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: > And Aloha Sherron ~ > > Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp > for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place > it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. > After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start > a split. > > Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of > choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to > assist in the shed. > > I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! > > Keep us posted! > > Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed > freely ;-] > > Elizabeth > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko > hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko > hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to > pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck > skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a > heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't > keeping the humidity up high enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and > her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped > together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a > unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although > in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the > skin being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only > recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her > limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and > the skin seems to fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body > back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in > the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is > green underneath, not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run > all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - > Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we > had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for > herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a > better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running > around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >> tweezers or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >> here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >> managed to catch any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. >> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a >> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >> matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> little girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gecko > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am > Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > trouble shedding ... > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko > hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko > hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull > off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. > We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to > it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high > enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her > right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped > together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, > so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in > watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin > being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already > been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently > started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her > arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to > fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when > the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really > becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and > forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, > although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, > not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all > around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - > Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had > to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. > Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance > of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they > don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big >> this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. >> Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp >> washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you >> will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the >> container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings >> of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble >>> shedding "egg skin" >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out >> of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, >> but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the >> hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, >> but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect >> for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around >> her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to >> have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it >> around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around >> her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is >> several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little >> girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> >> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >> >> l l l >> ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ >> l l ^^ llll \\\ >> l l llll /// >> l l llll \\\ >> l l ~~ llll /// >> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >> ) ( ) >> ( ) ( >> ) ( ) >> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >> 17.50 yo r.i.p. >> r.i.p. >> >> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************** >> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >> Florence" on AOL Food. >> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone > . > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Tue Jun 3 07:03:46 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 02:03:46 EDT Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Message-ID: --part1_bfa.17954b17.357638c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sherron ~ I love your gecko stories!!! Your "sauna gecko" is one lucky girl! I'll bet she is thinking "What a relief to be free of the skin that was around my neck!" Did you try placing something rough in her sauna? With that much energy perhaps she'd use it to continue her shed? Is she almost ready for an "after" photo? I wonder whether colonies of the Madagascar day geckos who are becoming scarce could successfully be established on some of the Hawaiian islands? Just a thought. BTW I live in Seattle. I caught my first three geckos --- Lepidodactylus lugubris hatchlings --- in 1988 on Kauai in a condo where I stayed. The rest is history. Mahalo, Elizabeth > Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble > shedding ... > Date:6/2/08 3:55:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > We have her soaking in the "hot tub" now. The temperature is about 83 F, > which seems to be as warm as we can get it without melting the plastic from > being too close to the lamp. She really doesn't like being there, whether it is > because of the dampness or just not being in her familiar surroundings with > her leaves and things, I'm not sure. Maybe she doesn't like the texture of the > washcloth. > > She went straight for the walls and tried to crawl up them, and has > continued to do so. Much of the time, she just moves her arms and legs (which she can > actually now do in the increased moisture level) without moving her body, > but she has managed to crawl about half-way up the wall before sliding back > down. I worry about the energy she is expending, but she is determined. > > Update: my husband tried the tweezers again (my hands shake too much) and we > managed to get the skin off her head! Also part of it off one arm and a big > hunk off her stomach. We had to keep wetting her and she ran all over the > place -- we can't actually "hold" her as I think we would break her arms if we > tried, so we just try to corral her between our fingers! And after being in > the sauna, she is really active!! But we are so happy to have some success, > just wish it had gone faster. We put her back in the sauna to help loosen up the > skin as it had started to harden again. This time she isn't even trying to > crawl the walls. Smart cookie -- she is just sitting in the middle where we > put her. She already has learned the drill. Maybe the next tweezer session will > go easier. Ha, ha. ;) > > Having "wild" geckos all over is one of the things I love most about living > in Hawaii! We have geckos everywhere! Most prominently the day geckos, but a > fair number of house geckos and a surprising number of mourning geckos, too. > When the day geckos were first introduced into Hawaii a few years back they > thought it might be the end of the some of the original varieties. However, > we have found that the mourning geckos are making a bit of a comeback, even > though they are at a distinct physical disadvantage. But they are much smarter > -- very quick witted, fast, determined and will stand up to someone twice > their size! I was so amazed when I saw them down in the bananas arch up their > backs like cats and stare down big old day geckos thrice their size over > papaya! And they quickly learn that I mean them no harm and will take mealworms > out of my hand, even the ones that don't live in the house! They are really fun > to watch! > > But that doesn't mean I don't love the day geckos, too. They are so > endearing because they look at you & interact with you so much. As I sit and type > this, I have a little one named Sneaker Girl who is sitting between some papers > on the table next to my laptop watching me. I have water & papaya out for her > and give her an occasional mealworm. She used to live outside on the lanai, > but decided to come in one day and staked out my table. She sits here for a > few hours and then goes off and does other things. She's called Sneaker Girl > because we had a friend over who wore bright green sneakers and the gecko was > attracted to them so much (I have no idea why) that she climbed up on the > lanai table leg and jumped over onto the sneakers. Luckily our friend likes > geckos, too. ;) > > We are really keeping our fingers crossed!! ;) > > Mahalo, Sherron > > elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: > >> And Aloha Sherron ~ >> >> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for >> a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in >> the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a >> few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split. >> >> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of >> choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in >> the shed. >> >> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >> >> Keep us posted! >> >> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed >> freely ;-] >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>> >>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko >>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are >>> even tinier. >>> >>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull >>> off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We >>> have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but >>> that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough. >>> >>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her >>> right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. >>> She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be >>> something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the >>> skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts >>> her movement. >>> >>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already >>> been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently >>> started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are >>> only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat >>> those. >>> >>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the >>> skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a >>> problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because >>> her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come >>> off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray! >>> >>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all >>> around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus >>> frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an >>> exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just >>> take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we >>> have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we >>> don't get to them first. :( >>> >>> Mahalo, Sherron >>> >>> >>> >>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>> >>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because >>>> my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko >>>> is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing >>>> your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. >>>> Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water >>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so >>>> perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>> >>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble >>>> shedding "egg skin" >>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> >>>> >>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron -----Original Message----- From: Gecko To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Aloha, Elizabeth She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier. This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough. She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray! We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( Mahalo, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Hello Sherron ~ > > Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my > laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! > However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko > in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near > a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the > sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove > the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small > scissors. > > What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? > > Elizabeth > > > >> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble >> shedding "egg skin" >> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_bfa.17954b17.357638c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sherron ~

I love your gecko stories!!! Your "sauna gecko" is one lucky girl!= I'll bet she is thinking "What a relief to be free of the skin that w= as around my neck!" Did you try placing something rough in her sauna?=20= With that much energy perhaps she'd use it to continue her shed? = ;Is she almost ready for an "after" photo?

I wonder whether colonies of the Madagascar day geckos who are becoming=20= scarce could successfully be established on some of the Hawaiian islands? &n= bsp;Just a thought.

BTW I live in Seattle. I caught my first three geckos --- Lepidoda= ctylus lugubris hatchlings --- in 1988 on Kauai in a condo where I stayed. &= nbsp;The rest is history.=20

Mahalo, Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question= on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
Date:6/2/08 3:55:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

We have her soaking in the "hot tub" now. The temperature is about 83 F,= which seems to be as warm as we can get it without melting the plastic from= being too close to the lamp. She really doesn't like being there, whether i= t is because of the dampness or just not being in her familiar surroundings=20= with her leaves and things, I'm not sure. Maybe she doesn't like the t= exture of the washcloth.

She went straight for the walls and tried to crawl up them, and has cont= inued to do so. Much of the time, she just moves her arms and legs (which sh= e can actually now do in the increased moisture level) without moving her bo= dy, but she has managed to crawl about half-way up the wall before sliding b= ack down. I worry about the energy she is expending, but she is determined.

Update: my husband tried the tweezers again (my hands shake too much) an= d we managed to get the skin off her head! Also part of it off one arm and a= big hunk off her stomach. We had to keep wetting her and she ran all over t= he place -- we can't actually "hold" her as I think we would break her arms=20= if we tried, so we just try to corral her between our fingers! And after bei= ng in the sauna, she is really active!! But we are so happy to have some suc= cess, just wish it had gone faster. We put her back in the sauna to help loo= sen up the skin as it had started to harden again. This time she isn't even=20= trying to crawl the walls. Smart cookie -- she is just sitting in the middle= where we put her. She already has learned the drill. Maybe the next tweezer= session will go easier. Ha, ha. ;)

Having "wild" geckos all over is one of the things I love most about liv= ing in Hawaii! We have geckos everywhere! Most prominently the day geckos, b= ut a fair number of house geckos and a surprising number of mourning geckos,= too. When the day geckos were first introduced into Hawaii a few years back= they thought it might be the end of the some of the original varieties. &nb= sp;However, we have found that the mourning geckos are making a bit of a com= eback, even though they are at a distinct physical disadvantage. But they ar= e much smarter -- very quick witted, fast, determined and will stand up to s= omeone twice their size! I was so amazed when I saw them down in the bananas= arch up their backs like cats and stare down big old day geckos thrice thei= r size over papaya! And they quickly learn that I mean them no harm an= d will take mealworms out of my hand, even the ones that don't live in the h= ouse! They are really fun to watch!

But that doesn't mean I don't love the day geckos, too. They are so ende= aring because they look at you & interact with you so much. As I sit and= type this, I have a little one named Sneaker Girl who is sitting between so= me papers on the table next to my laptop watching me. I have water & pap= aya out for her and give her an occasional mealworm. She used to live outsid= e on the lanai, but decided to come in one day and staked out my table. She=20= sits here for a few hours and then goes off and does other things. She's cal= led Sneaker Girl because we had a friend over who wore bright green sneakers= and the gecko was attracted to them so much (I have no idea why) that she c= limbed up on the lanai table leg and jumped over onto the sneakers. Luckily=20= our friend likes geckos, too. ;)

We are really keeping our fingers crossed!! ;)

Mahalo, Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wr= ote:
And Aloha Sherron ~
=20
Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a l= amp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and p= lace it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets for= m. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to=20= start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a secti= on of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to as= sist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!
=20
Keep us posted!
=20
Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed f= reely ;-]
=20
Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hat= chling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are= even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to=20= pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.= We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next t= o it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high e= nough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her=20= right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. S= he often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be= something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin= problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her=20= movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already= been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently start= ed splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are on= ly about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat thos= e.=20

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a= problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because he= r little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come= off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all=20= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus= frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an=20= exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just=20= take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we h= ave lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we=20= don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wr= ote:
Hello Sherron ~=20

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home b= ecause my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this g= ecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Tr= y placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcl= oth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will= notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. A= fter a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around h= er neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.=20

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet h= ere?=20

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble=20= shedding "egg skin"=20
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time=20
From:    gecko.ha= le@gmail.com (Sherron)=20
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=20
To:    gecko@l= ists.gekkota.com=20

We found a tiny hatchling on May=20= 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they=20= have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a pro= blem with her right leg, but is spunky.=20

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the h= atchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but sh= e has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her= . She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, b= ut I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.=20

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy,= so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have= started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her ne= ck that she can't get off.=20

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how= we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck= should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and= is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(=20

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little g= irl.=20

Mahalo, Sherron=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Gecko
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having tro= uble shedding ...

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hat= chling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are= even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to=20= pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.= We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next t= o it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high e= nough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her=20= right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. S= he often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be= something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin= problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her=20= movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already= been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently start= ed splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are on= ly about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat thos= e.=20

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a= problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because he= r little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come= off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all=20= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus= frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an=20= exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just=20= take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we h= ave lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we=20= don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wr= ote:

Hello Sherron ~=20

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home b= ecause my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this g= ecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Tr= y placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcl= oth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will= notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. A= fter a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around h= er neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.=20

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet h= ere?=20

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on=20= hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"=20
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time=20
From:    gecko.ha= le@gmail.com (Sherron)=20
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=20
To:    gecko@l= ists.gekkota.com=20

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little under= developed and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come=20= out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, b= ut is spunky.=20

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the h= atchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but sh= e has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her= . She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, b= ut I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.=20

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy,= so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have= started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her ne= ck that she can't get off.=20

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how= we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck= should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and= is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(=20

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little g= irl.=20

Mahalo, Sherron=20

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_bfa.17954b17.357638c2_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Jun 5 18:49:47 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 07:49:47 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin" In-Reply-To: <4844452D.20902@ix.netcom.com> References: <48432D89.4060609@gmail.com> <18F688F4-EC0E-4915-BF05-2F56D3807CB4@optonline.net> <484424D2.3020202@gmail.com> <4844452D.20902@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <4848273B.8060800@gmail.com> Aloha, Melody I have been using the refrigerator trick, but the fruit flies recover within seconds up to a minute of being removed from the refrigerator since the temperature is always pretty warm here in Hawaii. I even tried the freezer for a little while, but that is tricky since they die pretty easily. So what I have been doing is trying to catch only one or two at a time (hard to do, as the papaya skins are attracting a bunch of fruit flies -- our kitchen is crawling with them!), putting them in the refrigerator about 10 minutes, and then trying to work quickly enough with tweezers and scissors to cut off one of their wings. And they are tiny!! And I only have regular big shears, so I really need to buy something like cuticle scissors or something smaller, because it is really hard to cut off a wing and not crush or hurt the little fruit fly. But even after I have done all that, the fruit flies can hop!! So she still has a little problem catching them. But to get out of her cage now, they have to crawl all the way up the wall, so they tend to hang around more and she obviously must be getting them as they eventually disappear. ;) But I feel like I have been spending hours with a magnifying glass and tweezers trying to cut wings off the fruit flies!! ;D Thanks, Sherron Melody Hartley wrote: > Hi Sherron, > > Try catching some fruit flies and putting them in the refrigerator for > a few minutes. That slows them down, and the gecko might be able to > catch them. Also, the humid chamber that Elizabeth wrote about has > always worked for me with geckos that have trouble shedding. > > Best of luck! > Melody > > Gecko wrote: > >> We did try a little water on a Q-tip and worked on the ring around >> her neck. It softened a little, but didn't split. My husband was able >> to barely get hold of it with tweezers to give it a little pull, but >> it wouldn't split -- and we couldn't get anything in to try to cut it. >> >> We are so afraid of doing more damage to her. Her leg was damaged >> during hatching -- or she might have fallen, as we found her in the >> bathroom window in the bottom of the sill, while her egg and that of >> her dead sibling were caught midway up on the top of the open window. >> Apparently her hatching efforts or another gecko caused the eggs to >> dislodge and they fell. The dead sibling was not fully formed yet. >> >> Although I have not observed her eating, we know she must be. I >> gather her little tiny bugs off the fallen leaves from our orchid >> tree every day, plus aphids off some of the greenery she likes (we >> don't spray poisons), plus the papaya with the fruit flies. And she >> pooped on me yesterday after she crawled up onto me. ;) >> >> But there must be an art to catching the fruit flies & injuring >> them! I've done that with larger bugs before, but all I have done >> with these is crush them. They are so tiny, they just squish when I >> try to catch them. >> >> Thanks, Sherron >> >> Lyle Puente wrote: >> >>> You have a tough job! >>> Can you mist her and maybe injure some of the fruit flies to make >>> them easier catches? >>> You might need to mist her well and try a fine tweezer to get that >>> skin off? >>> >>> Lyle >>> >>> Lyle Puente >>> President >>> Global Gecko Association >>> http://www.gekkota.org >>> >>> http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com >>> http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned >>> >>> On Jun 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Sherron wrote: >>> >>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >>> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come >>> out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her >>> right leg, but is spunky. >>> >>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids >>> I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit >>> flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch >>> any yet. >>> >>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >>> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems >>> to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of >>> it around her neck that she can't get off. >>> >>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >>> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for >>> around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her >>> neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >>> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>> little girl. >>> >>> Mahalo, Sherron >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Jun 5 19:05:10 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:05:10 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Ok! But what about the tail? In-Reply-To: <8CA931B3CED9090-C58-14BC@webmail-da08.sysops.aol.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <8CA931B3CED9090-C58-14BC@webmail-da08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <48482AD6.4010309@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050603000809020007060603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a few seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down! But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tail. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is all that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off by itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off, too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking off. We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well developed. Right foot Right hand We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & curious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage. ;) We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have made it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live gecko before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It is really nice having her around. ;) I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;) Mahalo nui loa, Sherron elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: > Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight > pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? I > don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly > against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that something > works for you both. > > Elizabeth > > > -----Original Message----- > From: elizabethfreer@aol.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am > Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > trouble shedding ... > > And Aloha Sherron ~ > > Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp > for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and > place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets > form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough > to start a split. > > Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section > of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to > assist in the shed. > > I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! > > Keep us posted! > > Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed > freely ;-] > > Elizabeth > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day > gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning > gecko hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to > pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck > skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a > heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't > keeping the humidity up high enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, > and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg > together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the > joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some > of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has > only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, > and the skin seems to fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her > body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. > And she is green underneath, not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they > run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus > lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she > couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings > outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots > of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we > don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know >> how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" >> at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic >> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. >> Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on >> the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps >> you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with >> a tweezers or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >> here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest >> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs >> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >> managed to catch any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >> matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> little girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gecko > > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am > Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > trouble shedding ... > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko > hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko > hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to > pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck > skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating > pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the > humidity up high enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and > her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped > together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a > unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in > watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin > being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only > recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her > limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the > skin seems to fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when > the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really > becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and > forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, > although it has come off some of the back. And she is green > underneath, not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run > all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - > Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we > had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for > herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a > better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around > inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container >> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can >> remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers >> or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out >> of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right >> leg, but is spunky. >> >> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids >> I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit >> flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch >> any yet. >> >> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems >> to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it >> around her neck that she can't get off. >> >> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for >> around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck >> is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> little girl. >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> * >> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >> * >> l l l >> >> ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ >> l l ^^ llll \\\ >> l l llll /// >> l l llll \\\ >> l l ~~ llll /// >> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >> ) ( ) >> ( ) ( >> ) ( ) >> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >> 17.50 yo r.i.p. >> r.i.p. >> >> (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************** >> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >> Florence" on AOL Food. >> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Stay informed, get connected and more -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------050603000809020007060603 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------000500040500010602020906" --------------000500040500010602020906 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a few seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down!

But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tail. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is all that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off by itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off, too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking off.

We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well developed.

Right foot

Right hand

We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & curious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage. ;)

We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have made it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live gecko before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It is really nice having her around. ;)

I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:

Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that something works for you both.

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: elizabethfreer@aol.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
And Aloha Sherron ~

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

-----Original Message-----
From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone.
Stay informed, get connected and more

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

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--------------000500040500010602020906-- --------------050603000809020007060603-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Jun 5 19:10:23 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:10:23 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Re: Question on gecko who fell; and on euthanasia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48482C0F.7000407@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090403070107060006080503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth Thank you for your kind words on our little gecko. I do love them all and hate to see any of them die or be hurt. Having them around is hard on me since there tends to be a continual life & death drama, particularly with the three species and the hatchlings comings at all times of the year. I try to protect the little ones and the injured as much as I can, but mostly it is palliative. :( I do hope someone can help us on the euthanasia, though. I worry so much that we might be causing them more suffering and I really don't want to do that. Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Sherron ~ > > Sorry to hear about this poor soul. You obviously have geckos' best > interests at heart. May she rest in peace. > > I don't have the answer to your euthanasia question, but I'm certain > someone on this list might. > > Elizabeth > > > >> Subj:*[gecko]Re: Question on gecko who fell; and on euthanasia* >> Date:6/2/08 4:04:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> Ah, our poor little girl started having trouble breathing and her color >> started turning really bad -- she started getting black blotches on her >> skin and her eyes started sinking. She would gasp for air every so >> often, obviously in distress. So it became obvious she did have internal >> injuries and was not going to make it after all. >> >> As long as she seemed to be comfortable, at least when she wasn't >> moving, we held out hopes of it just being a broken bone or two. >> Especially since her color was still good this morning and she was >> breathing okay. >> >> But when we have done the only thing we could think of to ease her pain >> and distress, and that was to put her in the freezer. Since she is a >> reptile, we are hoping that was a kind thing to do since her body >> temperature should fall quickly. It is not something we would do with a >> mammal. >> >> Can anyone advise on a better way to put a gecko out of their misery? >> As long as there is hope and they aren't in obvious distress, we prefer >> to try to keep them quiet, out of harm's way (from cats, dogs, mongoose >> or other geckos) and hope for the best. But we do have occasion when >> they are in obvious pain and it is no favor to them to keep them alive. >> Once we had a little house gecko that someone had tried to eat and whose >> skin was partially gone and the ants had gotten to before I found him. >> He was e but beyond saving, and obviously in pain, and we froze him as >> we did not know what else to do. >> >> If there is something better we could do for them, we would like to >> know, as unfortunately it is likely to come up again. The day geckos do >> prey on our other two species, as well as their own youngsters. :( >> >> Thanks so much, >> Sherron >> >> Sherron wrote: >> > Aloha, >> > >> > I have another adult gecko with a problem, although I suspect there is >> > nothing we can do for her. We found her yesterday, but hoped she would >> > be better today. >> > >> > We think she must have fallen from the ceiling, as we found her on the >> > tile floor in our kitchen and she was moving weakly. I set her down >> > some papaya and she wiggled behind a box. >> > >> > Later, we found her on the floor near the refrigerator and she was not >> > interested in moving at all. We tried picking her up with a large ti >> > leaf, but she feebly pulled herself up onto my husband's hand and then >> > fell into my hands. We put her in a cage with a leaf to hide under >> > along with fruit and water and hoped that she didn't have any internal >> > injuries. She seemed happier hanging from the side of the cage and >> > looked pretty good this morning. >> > >> > But a little while ago, she fell off the side onto the floor of the >> > cage onto her back and lay there gasping for breath. I'm not sure if >> > they can breathe properly on their backs, so we turned her over -- >> > which stressed her, but she does seem to be able to breathe easier on >> > her stomach. I also misted her as I thought it might help her breathe >> > and she seems a little better now. >> > >> > But is there anything else I can do for her besides just wait and hope >> > she is just having pain from broken ribs and not from internal >> injuries? >> > >> > Thanks, Sherron > > > > *Elizabeth** > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > * > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------090403070107060006080503 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

Thank you for your kind words on our little gecko. I do love them all and hate to see any of them die or be hurt. Having them around is hard on me since there tends to be a continual life & death drama, particularly with the three species and the hatchlings comings at all times of the year. I try to protect the little ones and the injured as much as I can, but mostly it is palliative. :(

I do hope someone can help us on the euthanasia, though. I worry so much that we might be causing them more suffering and I really don't want to do that.

Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Sherron ~

Sorry to hear about this poor soul. You obviously have geckos' best interests at heart. May she rest in peace.

I don't have the answer to your euthanasia question, but I'm certain someone on this list might.

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Re: Question on gecko who fell; and on euthanasia
Date:6/2/08 4:04:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Ah, our poor little girl started having trouble breathing and her color
started turning really bad -- she started getting black blotches on her
skin and her eyes started sinking. She would gasp for air every so
often, obviously in distress. So it became obvious she did have internal
injuries and was not going to make it after all.

As long as she seemed to be comfortable, at least when she wasn't
moving, we held out hopes of it just being a broken bone or two.
Especially since her color was still good this morning and she was
breathing okay.

But when we have done the only thing we could think of to ease her pain
and distress, and that was to put her in the freezer. Since she is a
reptile, we are hoping that was a kind thing to do since her body
temperature should fall quickly. It is not something we would do with a
mammal.

Can anyone advise on a better way to put a gecko out of their misery?
As long as there is hope and they aren't in obvious distress, we prefer
to try to keep them quiet, out of harm's way (from cats, dogs, mongoose
or other geckos) and hope for the best. But we do have occasion when
they are in obvious pain and it is no favor to them to keep them alive.
Once we had a little house gecko that someone had tried to eat and whose
skin was partially gone and the ants had gotten to before I found him.
He was e but beyond saving, and obviously in pain, and we froze him as
we did not know what else to do.

If there is something better we could do for them, we would like to
know, as unfortunately it is likely to come up again. The day geckos do
prey on our other two species, as well as their own youngsters. :(

Thanks so much,
Sherron

Sherron wrote:
> Aloha,
>
> I have another adult gecko with a problem, although I suspect there is
> nothing we can do for her. We found her yesterday, but hoped she would
> be better today.
>
> We think she must have fallen from the ceiling, as we found her on the
> tile floor in our kitchen and she was moving weakly. I set her down
> some papaya and she wiggled behind a box.
>
> Later, we found her on the floor near the refrigerator and she was not
> interested in moving at all. We tried picking her up with a large ti
> leaf, but she feebly pulled herself up onto my husband's hand and then
> fell into my hands. We put her in a cage with a leaf to hide under
> along with fruit and water and hoped that she didn't have any internal
> injuries. She seemed happier hanging from the side of the cage and
> looked pretty good this morning.
>
> But a little while ago, she fell off the side onto the floor of the
> cage onto her back and lay there gasping for breath. I'm not sure if
> they can breathe properly on their backs, so we turned her over --
> which stressed her, but she does seem to be able to breathe easier on
> her stomach. I also misted her as I thought it might help her breathe
> and she seems a little better now.
>
> But is there anything else I can do for her besides just wait and hope
> she is just having pain from broken ribs and not from internal injuries?
>
> Thanks, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

--------------090403070107060006080503-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Jun 5 22:54:05 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 11:54:05 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4848607D.6010100@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090505060006030603060100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth She really did perk up!! She was much happier, even though she was still gunked up on her hands, legs and body. But now we've gotten it off everything but the tail and a couple of tiny pieces that seem to still be clinging to a finger and a toe that don't want to come off -- and we think she will nibble off herself. We put rough paper towels in the sauna, but after she figured out the drill -- the tweezers & swabs would follow the sauna -- she mostly just sat and waited the next few times through. Or just tried climbing up the sides of the container. And she is much, much happier! She is climbing up and down the honeysuckle leaves and flowers in her cage and stalking the fruit flies! She is really so much more active! And very alert and responsive to motion and anyone coming around her cage. I have uploaded a bunch of photos of her to http://hale-pohaku.net/Geckos/Images/Preemie/ but you have to click on each one to view it. I am working on setting them up in an html document so you can just view them easily. In between catching those fruit flies & clipping their wings. ;) Here's an "after" showing the old skin still on her tail, as well as what we thought was skin on her left hand. But in looking at the palm side of the hand, I am not sure if it is skin or maybe just damaged. What we thought was skin on her right side most-forward toe (similar to that whitish look on her left hand) looks black & White I crumpled up from underneath. :( Unfortunately, it is illegal to bring any geckos into Hawaii. The climate is apparently very suitable indeed for the Madagascar geckos and in just the short time they have been around, their population has exploded. Unfortunately, they predate heavily on the native geckos (mourning, stump-toed, Indo-Pacific & tree geckos) as well as the more recently introduced house geckos. You cannot even catch them and export them; but are limited to 5 for "personal use only." There is a legitimate reason for the regulations: Hawaii has a high species extinction rate and much of it is due to exotic species introduction. Like Madagascar, species are still being discovered -- like the Wekiu Bug on the top of Mauna Kea which has a substance like anti-freeze in its blood which will "boil" at non-freezing temperature. And wildlife experts thought that the mourning gecko would probably be wiped out by the house gecko importation during WWII, which did greatly impact them. But it's nothing like the population explosion of the day geckos -- most new tourists to the islands probably don't even realize there is anything but bright green geckos here anymore. I think the only reason the mourning gecko hasn't been wiped out is they are much smarter, quicker and more aggressive. I am amazed by the ones that have moved into our house and into our banana mats! We have them living in our window gutters, orchid pots, and inside our TV! ;) Mahalo pumehana (warmest thanks) for your very helpful advice, Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Sherron ~ > > I love your gecko stories!!! Your "sauna gecko" is one lucky girl! > I'll bet she is thinking "What a relief to be free of the skin that > was around my neck!" Did you try placing something rough in her > sauna? With that much energy perhaps she'd use it to continue her > shed? Is she almost ready for an "after" photo? > > I wonder whether colonies of the Madagascar day geckos who are > becoming scarce could successfully be established on some of the > Hawaiian islands? Just a thought. > > BTW I live in Seattle. I caught my first three geckos --- > Lepidodactylus lugubris hatchlings --- in 1988 on Kauai in a condo > where I stayed. The rest is history. > > Mahalo, Elizabeth > >> Subj:*Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >> trouble shedding ...* >> Date:6/2/08 3:55:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >> We have her soaking in the "hot tub" now. The temperature is about 83 >> F, which seems to be as warm as we can get it without melting the >> plastic from being too close to the lamp. She really doesn't like >> being there, whether it is because of the dampness or just not being >> in her familiar surroundings with her leaves and things, I'm not >> sure. Maybe she doesn't like the texture of the washcloth. >> >> She went straight for the walls and tried to crawl up them, and has >> continued to do so. Much of the time, she just moves her arms and >> legs (which she can actually now do in the increased moisture level) >> without moving her body, but she has managed to crawl about half-way >> up the wall before sliding back down. I worry about the energy she is >> expending, but she is determined. >> >> Update: my husband tried the tweezers again (my hands shake too much) >> and we managed to get the skin off her head! Also part of it off one >> arm and a big hunk off her stomach. We had to keep wetting her and >> she ran all over the place -- we can't actually "hold" her as I think >> we would break her arms if we tried, so we just try to corral her >> between our fingers! And after being in the sauna, she is really >> active!! But we are so happy to have some success, just wish it had >> gone faster. We put her back in the sauna to help loosen up the skin >> as it had started to harden again. This time she isn't even trying to >> crawl the walls. Smart cookie -- she is just sitting in the middle >> where we put her. She already has learned the drill. Maybe the next >> tweezer session will go easier. Ha, ha. ;) >> >> Having "wild" geckos all over is one of the things I love most about >> living in Hawaii! We have geckos everywhere! Most prominently the day >> geckos, but a fair number of house geckos and a surprising number of >> mourning geckos, too. When the day geckos were first introduced into >> Hawaii a few years back they thought it might be the end of the some >> of the original varieties. However, we have found that the mourning >> geckos are making a bit of a comeback, even though they are at a >> distinct physical disadvantage. But they are much smarter -- very >> quick witted, fast, determined and will stand up to someone twice >> their size! I was so amazed when I saw them down in the bananas arch >> up their backs like cats and stare down big old day geckos thrice >> their size over papaya! And they quickly learn that I mean them no >> harm and will take mealworms out of my hand, even the ones that don't >> live in the house! They are really fun to watch! >> >> But that doesn't mean I don't love the day geckos, too. They are so >> endearing because they look at you & interact with you so much. As I >> sit and type this, I have a little one named Sneaker Girl who is >> sitting between some papers on the table next to my laptop watching >> me. I have water & papaya out for her and give her an occasional >> mealworm. She used to live outside on the lanai, but decided to come >> in one day and staked out my table. She sits here for a few hours and >> then goes off and does other things. She's called Sneaker Girl >> because we had a friend over who wore bright green sneakers and the >> gecko was attracted to them so much (I have no idea why) that she >> climbed up on the lanai table leg and jumped over onto the sneakers. >> Luckily our friend likes geckos, too. ;) >> >> We are really keeping our fingers crossed!! ;) >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>> >>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >>> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >>> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >>> loose enough to start a split. >>> >>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up >>> against to assist in the shed. >>> >>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>> >>> Keep us posted! >>> >>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>> roamed freely ;-] >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>> >>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>> >>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>> >>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, >>>> too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that >>>> may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>> >>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>> her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, >>>> and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>> >>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>> >>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But >>>> we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>> for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>> have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos >>>> running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>> them first. :( >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>> >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container >>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>> >>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>> here? >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>> > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped > and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out > of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, > but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the > hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, > but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect > for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around > her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, > so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to > have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it > around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see > how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around > her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is > several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little > girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gecko > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am > Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > trouble shedding ... > > Aloha, Elizabeth > > She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko > hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko > hatchlings are even tinier. > > This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to > pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck > skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating > pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the > humidity up high enough. > > She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and > her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped > together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a > unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in > watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin > being so tight it restricts her movement. > > Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only > recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her > limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the > skin seems to fully coat those. > > She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when > the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really > becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and > forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, > although it has come off some of the back. And she is green > underneath, not gray! > > We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run > all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - > Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we > had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for > herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a > better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around > inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> Hello Sherron ~ >> >> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container >> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can >> remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers >> or small scissors. >> >> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >> >> Elizabeth >> >> >>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >> > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped > and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out > of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, > but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the > hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, > but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect > for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around > her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, > so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to > have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it > around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see > how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around > her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is > several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little > girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > *Elizabeth** > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > * > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------090505060006030603060100 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------040502000006080501020002" --------------040502000006080501020002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth

She really did perk up!! She was much happier, even though she was still gunked up on her hands, legs and body. But now we've gotten it off everything but the tail and a couple of tiny pieces that seem to still be clinging to a finger and a toe that don't want to come off -- and we think she will nibble off herself.

We put rough paper towels in the sauna, but after she figured out the drill -- the tweezers & swabs would follow the sauna -- she mostly just sat and waited the next few times through. Or just tried climbing up the sides of the container.

And she is much, much happier! She is climbing up and down the honeysuckle leaves and flowers in her cage and stalking the fruit flies! She is really so much more active! And very alert and responsive to motion and anyone coming around her cage.

I have uploaded a bunch of photos of her to http://hale-pohaku.net/Geckos/Images/Preemie/ but you have to click on each one to view it. I am working on setting them up in an html document so you can just view them easily. In between catching those fruit flies & clipping their wings. ;)

Here's an "after" showing the old skin still on her tail, as well as what we thought was skin on her left hand. But in looking at the palm side of the hand, I am not sure if it is skin or maybe just damaged. What we thought was skin on her right side most-forward toe (similar to that whitish look on her left hand) looks black & White I crumpled up from underneath. :(

Unfortunately, it is illegal to bring any geckos into Hawaii. The climate is apparently very suitable indeed for the Madagascar geckos and in just the short time they have been around, their population has exploded. Unfortunately, they predate heavily on the native geckos (mourning, stump-toed, Indo-Pacific & tree geckos) as well as the more recently introduced house geckos. You cannot even catch them and export them; but are limited to 5 for "personal use only." There is a legitimate reason for the regulations: Hawaii has a high species extinction rate and much of it is due to exotic species introduction. Like Madagascar, species are still being discovered -- like the Wekiu Bug on the top of Mauna Kea which has a substance like anti-freeze in its blood which will "boil" at non-freezing temperature.

And wildlife experts thought that the mourning gecko would probably be wiped out by the house gecko importation during WWII, which did greatly impact them. But it's nothing like the population explosion of the day geckos -- most new tourists to the islands probably don't even realize there is anything but bright green geckos here anymore. I think the only reason the mourning gecko hasn't been wiped out is they are much smarter, quicker and more aggressive. I am amazed by the ones that have moved into our house and into our banana mats! We have them living in our window gutters, orchid pots, and inside our TV! ;)

Mahalo pumehana (warmest thanks) for your very helpful advice,
Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Sherron ~

I love your gecko stories!!! Your "sauna gecko" is one lucky girl! I'll bet she is thinking "What a relief to be free of the skin that was around my neck!" Did you try placing something rough in her sauna? With that much energy perhaps she'd use it to continue her shed? Is she almost ready for an "after" photo?

I wonder whether colonies of the Madagascar day geckos who are becoming scarce could successfully be established on some of the Hawaiian islands? Just a thought.

BTW I live in Seattle. I caught my first three geckos --- Lepidodactylus lugubris hatchlings --- in 1988 on Kauai in a condo where I stayed. The rest is history.

Mahalo, Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
Date:6/2/08 3:55:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

We have her soaking in the "hot tub" now. The temperature is about 83 F, which seems to be as warm as we can get it without melting the plastic from being too close to the lamp. She really doesn't like being there, whether it is because of the dampness or just not being in her familiar surroundings with her leaves and things, I'm not sure. Maybe she doesn't like the texture of the washcloth.

She went straight for the walls and tried to crawl up them, and has continued to do so. Much of the time, she just moves her arms and legs (which she can actually now do in the increased moisture level) without moving her body, but she has managed to crawl about half-way up the wall before sliding back down. I worry about the energy she is expending, but she is determined.

Update: my husband tried the tweezers again (my hands shake too much) and we managed to get the skin off her head! Also part of it off one arm and a big hunk off her stomach. We had to keep wetting her and she ran all over the place -- we can't actually "hold" her as I think we would break her arms if we tried, so we just try to corral her between our fingers! And after being in the sauna, she is really active!! But we are so happy to have some success, just wish it had gone faster. We put her back in the sauna to help loosen up the skin as it had started to harden again. This time she isn't even trying to crawl the walls. Smart cookie -- she is just sitting in the middle where we put her. She already has learned the drill. Maybe the next tweezer session will go easier. Ha, ha. ;)

Having "wild" geckos all over is one of the things I love most about living in Hawaii! We have geckos everywhere! Most prominently the day geckos, but a fair number of house geckos and a surprising number of mourning geckos, too. When the day geckos were first introduced into Hawaii a few years back they thought it might be the end of the some of the original varieties. However, we have found that the mourning geckos are making a bit of a comeback, even though they are at a distinct physical disadvantage. But they are much smarter -- very quick witted, fast, determined and will stand up to someone twice their size! I was so amazed when I saw them down in the bananas arch up their backs like cats and stare down big old day geckos thrice their size over papaya! And they quickly learn that I mean them no harm and will take mealworms out of my hand, even the ones that don't live in the house! They are really fun to watch!

But that doesn't mean I don't love the day geckos, too. They are so endearing because they look at you & interact with you so much. As I sit and type this, I have a little one named Sneaker Girl who is sitting between some papers on the table next to my laptop watching me. I have water & papaya out for her and give her an occasional mealworm. She used to live outside on the lanai, but decided to come in one day and staked out my table. She sits here for a few hours and then goes off and does other things. She's called Sneaker Girl because we had a friend over who wore bright green sneakers and the gecko was attracted to them so much (I have no idea why) that she climbed up on the lanai table leg and jumped over onto the sneakers. Luckily our friend likes geckos, too. ;)

We are really keeping our fingers crossed!! ;)

Mahalo, Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:

And Aloha Sherron ~

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

-----Original Message-----
From: Gecko
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
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-- 

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Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii  (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html

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In-Reply-To: <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> Aloha, Melody Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper towel on top of it and she liked that better. Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and house. ;) Mahalo, Sherron Melody Hartley wrote: > Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a > washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full of > warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be helpful > for wetting the old skin and working it loose. > > elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: > >> And Aloha Sherron ~ >> >> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >> loose enough to start a split. >> >> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section >> of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against >> to assist in the shed. >> >> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >> >> Keep us posted! >> >> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >> roamed freely ;-] >> >> Elizabeth >> >> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko >> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >> hatchlings are even tinier. >> >> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >> keeping the humidity up high enough. >> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped >> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a >> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although >> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the >> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >> >> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only >> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her >> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and >> the skin seems to fully coat those. >> >> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >> green underneath, not gray! >> >> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we >> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for >> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a >> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them >> first. :( >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Hello Sherron ~ >>> >>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>> tweezers or small scissors. >>> >>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>> here? >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> >>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>> >>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>> managed to catch any yet. >>> >>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. >>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a >>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>> >>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>> matter. :( >>> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>> little girl. >>> >>> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gecko >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >> trouble shedding ... >> >> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko >> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >> hatchlings are even tinier. >> >> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating >> pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the >> humidity up high enough. >> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped >> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a >> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although >> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the >> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >> >> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only >> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her >> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and >> the skin seems to fully coat those. >> >> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >> green underneath, not gray! >> >> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we >> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for >> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a >> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( >> >> Mahalo, Sherron >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Hello Sherron ~ >>> >>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with >>> a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can >>> remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers >>> or small scissors. >>> >>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> >>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >>> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come >>> out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her >>> right leg, but is spunky. >>> >>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids >>> I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit >>> flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch >>> any yet. >>> >>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >>> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems >>> to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of >>> it around her neck that she can't get off. >>> >>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >>> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for >>> around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her >>> neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >>> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>> little girl. >>> >>> Mahalo, Sherron >>> >>> >>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>> >>> l l >>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ >>> /..\ ^^ >>> l l ^^ llll \\\ >>> l l llll /// >>> l l llll \\\ >>> l l ~~ llll /// >>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>> ) ( ) >>> ( ) ( >>> ) ( ) >>> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >>> 17.50 yo r.i.p. >>> r.i.p. >>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************** >>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >> >> >> -- >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >> . >> > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 6 00:16:31 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Lyle Puente) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:16:31 -0400 Subject: [gecko] Another article about Tony and Aaron In-Reply-To: <4848273B.8060800@gmail.com> References: <48432D89.4060609@gmail.com> <18F688F4-EC0E-4915-BF05-2F56D3807CB4@optonline.net> <484424D2.3020202@gmail.com> <4844452D.20902@ix.netcom.com> <4848273B.8060800@gmail.com> Message-ID: --Boundary_(ID_3fDafARBRHTsuyLSIud5FQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080522145204.htm Y'all make us proud boys! thanks Lori for sending this to me! Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned --Boundary_(ID_3fDafARBRHTsuyLSIud5FQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

htt= p://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080522145204.htm<= /div>

Y'all make us = proud boys!

thanks Lori for sending this to = me!

Lyle = Puente

President

Global Gecko = Association

http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com

http://www.myspace.com/My= BrothersBanned

= --Boundary_(ID_3fDafARBRHTsuyLSIud5FQ)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 6 02:16:21 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:16:21 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> Aloha Sharron, You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give you more info if you're interested. Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to back, like turning a cone inside out. The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" -- ah-LO-ah. It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) Melody Gecko wrote: > Aloha, Melody > > Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that would > be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) > > Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper towel on > top of it and she liked that better. > > Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf with > red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on paper towels, > but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we have tons of them. > And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out on. And all the day > geckos like the helekonia -- that and the bananas are their favorite > hangouts ... along with our lanai and house. ;) > > Mahalo, > Sherron > > > > Melody Hartley wrote: > >> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full of >> warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be helpful >> for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >> >> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>> >>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >>> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >>> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >>> loose enough to start a split. >>> >>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section >>> of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against >>> to assist in the shed. >>> >>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>> >>> Keep us posted! >>> >>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>> roamed freely ;-] >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>> >>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko >>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>> >>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped >>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a >>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although >>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the >>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>> >>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only >>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her >>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and >>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>> >>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>> green underneath, not gray! >>> >>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we >>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for >>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a >>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them >>> first. :( >>> >>> Mahalo, Sherron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>> >>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>> >>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>> here? >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>> >>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>> >>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. >>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a >>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>> >>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>> matter. :( >>>> >>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>> little girl. >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Gecko >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding ... >>> >>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>> >>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko >>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>> >>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating >>> pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the >>> humidity up high enough. >>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped >>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a >>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although >>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the >>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>> >>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only >>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her >>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and >>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>> >>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>> green underneath, not gray! >>> >>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we >>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for >>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a >>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :( >>> >>> Mahalo, Sherron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>> >>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with >>>> a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can >>>> remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers >>>> or small scissors. >>>> >>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped >>>> and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come >>>> out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her >>>> right leg, but is spunky. >>>> >>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids >>>> I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit >>>> flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch >>>> any yet. >>>> >>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, >>>> so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems >>>> to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of >>>> it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>> >>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see >>>> how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for >>>> around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her >>>> neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( >>>> >>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>> little girl. >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>>> >>>> l l >>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ >>>> /..\ ^^ >>>> l l ^^ llll \\\ >>>> l l llll /// >>>> l l llll \\\ >>>> l l ~~ llll /// >>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>>> ) ( ) >>>> ( ) ( >>>> ) ( ) >>>> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >>>> 17.50 yo r.i.p. >>>> r.i.p. >>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ************** >>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >>> . >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Global Gecko Association >> http://www.gekkota.com >> Classifieds >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >> gecko mailing list >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >> > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 6 06:52:55 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 01:52:55 EDT Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Message-ID: --part1_c2b.292effb6.357a2ab7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Sherron ~ I thoroughly enjoyed your e-mails and photos this afternoon!!! I'll check them out thoroughly at work after Field Day (if it doesn't rain) or at the library. (GGA is a great resource!!) You both have come along way with your little Gold Dust gecko. She looks so much better than before. Has she a name? I agree with Melody that she will probably need further human assistance shedding that toe skin and her tail skin. After a short break, I'd advise you to place her in the humidity chamber again perhaps with something rougher than a paper towel to work on her tail and toe. Do you keep anything a bit rough in her regular cage like a twig, a small rough branch, or rock? From your photo those areas seem to have retained more than a single shed and may be difficult for her to remove on her own. Melody suggests peeling the tail skin down from the vent towards the tip if I'm reading her correctly ;-} But I realize the skin needs loosening first. Keep us posted, Elizabeth In a message dated 6/5/08 5:15:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mhartley@ix.netcom.com writes: > As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on the > next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to back, > like turning a cone inside out. > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_c2b.292effb6.357a2ab7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aloha, Sherron ~

I thoroughly enjoyed your e-mails and photos this afternoon!!! I'l= l check them out thoroughly at work after Field Day (if it doesn't rain) or=20= at the library. (GGA is a great resource!!) You both have come a= long way with your little Gold Dust gecko. She looks so much better= than before. Has she a name?

I agree with Melody that she will probably need further human assistance= shedding that toe skin and her tail skin. After a short break, I'd ad= vise you to place her in the humidity chamber again perhaps with something r= ougher than a paper towel to work on her tail and toe. Do you keep any= thing a bit rough in her regular cage like a twig, a small rough branch, or=20= rock? From your photo those areas seem to have retained more than a si= ngle shed and may be difficult for her to remove on her own. Melody su= ggests peeling the tail skin down from the vent towards the tip if I'm readi= ng her correctly ;-} But I realize the skin needs loosening first.

Keep us posted,
Elizabeth

In a message dated 6/5/08 5:15:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mhartley@ix.= netcom.com writes:

As to the last bits of s= hedding, she might lose the extra skin on the=20
next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to=20= back,=20
like turning a cone inside out.

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question= on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Ok! But what a= bout the tail?
Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a f= ew seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down!

But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tai= l. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is al= l that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off=20= by itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off,=20= too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking off.

We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened=20= and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well= developed.=20

Right foot           R= ight hand

We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she= didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & cur= ious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage.= ;)

We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have m= ade it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live geck= o before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It=20= is really nice having her around. ;)

I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the=20= address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wr= ote:
Do you have a small scissor= s for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a spl= it/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't know how active she is, but y= ou might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a= table. Hope that something works for you both.

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: elizabethfreer@aol.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having tro= uble shedding ...

And Aloha Sherron ~
=20
Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a l= amp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and p= lace it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets for= m. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to=20= start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a secti= on of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to as= sist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!
=20
Keep us posted!
=20
Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed f= reely ;-]
=20
Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hat= chling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are= even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to=20= pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.= We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next t= o it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high e= nough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her=20= right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. S= he often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be= something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin= problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her=20= movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already= been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently start= ed splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are on= ly about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat thos= e.=20

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a= problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because he= r little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come= off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all=20= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus= frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an=20= exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just=20= take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we h= ave lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we=20= don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wr= ote:
Hello Sherron ~=20

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home b= ecause my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this g= ecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Tr= y placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcl= oth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will= notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. A= fter a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around h= er neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.=20

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet h= ere?=20

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble=20= shedding "egg skin"=20
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time=20
From:    gecko.ha= le@gmail.com (Sherron)=20
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=20
To:    gecko@l= ists.gekkota.com=20

We found a tiny hatchling on May=20= 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they=20= have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a pro= blem with her right leg, but is spunky.=20

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the h= atchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but sh= e has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her= . She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, b= ut I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.=20

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy,= so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have= started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her ne= ck that she can't get off.=20

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how= we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck= should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and= is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(=20

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little g= irl.=20

Mahalo, Sherron=20

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_c16.3d0fdbc3.357a3af8_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 6 08:05:35 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 03:05:35 EDT Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Message-ID: --part1_c56.37a53630.357a3bbf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi ~ > > Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least physically > painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can be done to either > improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that freezing is not the way to go. > Can someone out there recommend the best way for small lizards? > > Thanks, > Elizabeth

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_c56.37a53630.357a3bbf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi ~

Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least physically=20= painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can be done to either= improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that freezing is not<= /B> the way to go. Can someone out there recommend the best way for sm= all lizards?

Thanks,
Elizabeth

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_c56.37a53630.357a3bbf_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 6 09:35:18 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Tracy Vicente) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 04:35:18 -0400 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002901c8c7b0$4047fbd0$0201a8c0@HP540n> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_++zJ72MyuT9B8+abIdarGQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oh dear this topic is so sad. Freezing, think of how it feels when we have frostbite, they have to feel at least a bit of that even if they are small... The pain of an injection, well, I had to do this with my african fat tail a few months ago. We tried meds and everything to get him better and he was plainly suffering and when they gave him that needle, I cried for 2 hours cuz he winced when my vet gave it to him. But the peace afterwards and I felt I did the right thing. -----Original Message----- From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of ElizabethFreer@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 3:06 AM To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Hi ~ Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least physically painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can be done to either improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that freezing is not the way to go. Can someone out there recommend the best way for small lizards? Thanks, Elizabeth ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --Boundary_(ID_++zJ72MyuT9B8+abIdarGQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message
Oh dear this topic is so sad.

Freezing, think of how it feels when we have frostbite, they have to feel at least a bit of that even if they are small...

The pain of an injection, well, I had to do this with my african fat tail a few months ago. We tried meds and everything to get him better and he was plainly suffering and when they gave him that needle, I cried for 2 hours cuz he winced when my vet gave it to him. But the peace afterwards and I felt I did the right thing.

-----Original Message-----
From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of ElizabethFreer@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 3:06 AM
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...

Hi ~

Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least physically painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can be done to either improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that freezing is not the way to go. Can someone out there recommend the best way for small lizards?

Thanks,
Elizabeth

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
--Boundary_(ID_++zJ72MyuT9B8+abIdarGQ)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 6 10:32:42 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Magnus Johansson) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:32:42 +0200 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4849043A.5090805@rnd.se> >> Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least >> physically painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can >> be done to either improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that >> freezing is *not* the way to go. Can someone out there recommend the >> best way for small lizards? No, freezing is not the way to go, that method is also banned in my country. Apart from taking it to the vet, the other methods are somewhat gruesome, shooting or *hard* hit to the head. So, for a small lizard you'd hold it against some hard surface and hit it over the head with some blunt object. From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Jun 7 18:02:39 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:02:39 EDT Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Message-ID: --part1_ca6.29e824fd.357c192f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tracy ~ I do realize how uncomfortable a topic this is for geckophiles. Thanks for being brave and sharing your sad experiences with your African fat tail. We all learn from experiences like yours. The injection might be quicker? Some of us let nature take it's course. In my experience some geckos seem to be incredibly tough and hang on till the bitter end. I do wonder how much they are suffering and what their pain level is. Elizabeth > Subj:RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... > Date:6/6/08 1:36:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time > From: trace@gexfiles.com (Tracy Vicente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Oh dear this topic is so sad. > Freezing, think of how it feels when we have frostbite, they have to feel at > least a bit of that even if they are small... > The pain of an injection, well, I had to do this with my african fat tail a > few months ago. We tried meds and everything to get him better and he was > plainly suffering and when they gave him that needle, I cried for 2 hours cuz he > winced when my vet gave it to him. But the peace afterwards and I felt I did > the right thing. > > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] >> On Behalf Of ElizabethFreer@aol.com >> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 3:06 AM >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... >> >> >>> Hi ~ >>> >>> Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least physically >>> painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can be done to either >>> improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that freezing is not the way >>> to go. Can someone out there recommend the best way for small lizards? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Elizabeth >> > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_ca6.29e824fd.357c192f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tracy ~

I do realize how uncomfortable a topic this is for geckophiles. Th= anks for being brave and sharing your sad experiences with your African fat=20= tail. We all learn from experiences like yours.

The injection might be quicker?

Some of us let nature take it's course. In my experience some geck= os seem to be incredibly tough and hang on till the bitter end. I do w= onder how much they are suffering and what their pain level is.

Elizabeth

Subj:RE: [gecko]...Eutha= nasia for Distressed Geckos...
Date:6/6/08 1:36:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    trace@gexfiles.com (Tracy Vicente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Oh dear this topic is so sad.
Freezing, think of how it feels when we have frostbite, they have to=20= feel at least a bit of that even if they are small...
The pain of an injection, well, I had to do this with my african fat=20= tail a few months ago. We tried meds and everything to get him better and he= was plainly suffering and when they gave him that needle, I cried for 2 hou= rs cuz he winced when my vet gave it to him. But the peace afterwards and I=20= felt I did the right thing.

-----Original Message-----
From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gek= kota.com] On Behalf Of ElizabethFreer@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 3:06 AM
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...

Hi ~=20

Sherron from Hawaii has recently requested info on the least physically=20= painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can be done to either= improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that freezing is not<= /B> the way to go. Can someone out there recommend the best way for sm= all lizards?=20

Thanks,=20
Elizabeth

~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_ca6.29e824fd.357c192f_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Jun 7 18:08:52 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 13:08:52 EDT Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Message-ID: --part1_be0.368a9119.357c1aa4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Magnus ~ Thank you for sharing these uncomfortable details with the GGA list. In Geckos We Trust, Elizabeth > Subj:Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... > Date:6/6/08 2:33:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time > From: rnd-gecko2@rnd.se (Magnus Johansson) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > >> A GGA member has recently requested info on the least > >> physically painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothing can > >> be done to either improve or sustain their lives. I have heard that > >> freezing is *not* the way to go. Can someone out there recommend the > >> best way for small lizards? > > No, freezing is not the way to go, that method is also banned in my > country. Apart from taking it to the vet, the other methods are somewhat > gruesome, shooting or *hard* hit to the head. So, for a small lizard > you'd hold it against some hard surface and hit it over the head with > some blunt object. > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_be0.368a9119.357c1aa4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Magnus ~

Thank you for sharing these uncomfortable details with the GGA list.

In Geckos We Trust,
Elizabeth=20

Subj:Re: [gecko]...Eutha= nasia for Distressed Geckos...
Date:6/6/08 2:33:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    rnd-gecko2@rnd.se (Magnus Johansson)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

>> A GGA member has recently requested info on the least=20
>> physically painful way to put geckos down when it appears nothi= ng can=20
>> be done to either improve or sustain their lives. I have=20= heard that=20
>> freezing is *not* the way to go. Can someone out there re= commend the=20
>> best way for small lizards?

No, freezing is not the way to go, that method is also banned in my=20
country. Apart from taking it to the vet, the other methods are somewhat= =20
gruesome, shooting or *hard* hit to the head. So, for a small lizard=20
you'd hold it against some hard surface and hit it over the head with=20
some blunt object.
_______________________________________________
Global Gecko Association
http://www.gekkota.com
Classifieds
http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
gecko mailing list
gecko@lists.gekkota.com
http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_be0.368a9119.357c1aa4_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Jun 7 23:15:15 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:15:15 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> Aloha, Melody Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! Much easier! ;) We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!! Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, but I sure like the name! ;) Mahalo, Sherron Melody Hartley wrote: > Aloha Sharron, > > You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to > have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch > otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can raise > flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that because I > keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos too. You'd > have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one shipped to you > if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the flying ones > because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give you more info if > you're interested. > > Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any > other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go > blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! > > As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on the > next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to > back, like turning a cone inside out. > > The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although pronounced > differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" -- ah-LO-ah. > > It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) > > Melody > > Gecko wrote: > >> Aloha, Melody >> >> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that >> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) >> >> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper towel >> on top of it and she liked that better. >> >> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf with >> red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on paper >> towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we have tons >> of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out on. And all >> the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the bananas are their >> favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and house. ;) >> >> Mahalo, >> Sherron >> >> >> >> Melody Hartley wrote: >> >>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full >>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be >>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >>> >>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>>> >>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >>>> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >>>> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >>>> loose enough to start a split. >>>> >>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up >>>> against to assist in the shed. >>>> >>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>>> >>>> Keep us posted! >>>> >>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>>> roamed freely ;-] >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>> >>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>> gecko >>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>>> >>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >>>> and >>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>> clumped >>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a >>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. >>>> Although >>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be >>>> the >>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>> >>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>> only >>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her >>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and >>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>> >>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >>>> body >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>> >>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >>>> run >>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>> house - >>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). >>>> But we >>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for >>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>> have a >>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them >>>> first. :( >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>> >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know >>>>> how >>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>> >>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>> here? >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> >>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>> >>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the >>>>> rest of >>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >>>>> very >>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>> >>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >>>>> up. >>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>> has a >>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>> >>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>> matter. :( >>>>> >>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>> little girl. >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Gecko >>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >>>> having trouble shedding ... >>>> >>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>> >>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>> >>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, >>>> too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that >>>> may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>> >>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>> her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, >>>> and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>> >>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>> >>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But >>>> we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>> for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>> have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos >>>> running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>> them first. :( >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>> >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>> >>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>> here? >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> >>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>> >>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>> >>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. >>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a >>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>> >>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>> matter. :( >>>>> >>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>> little girl. >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>>>> >>>>> l l >>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ >>>>> /..\ ^^ >>>>> l l ^^ llll >>>>> \\\ l l llll /// >>>>> l l llll \\\ >>>>> l l ~~ llll /// >>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>>>> ) ( ) >>>>> ( ) ( >>>>> ) ( ) >>>>> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >>>>> 17.50 yo >>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p. >>>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ************** >>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>>>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - >>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Global Gecko Association >>> http://www.gekkota.com >>> Classifieds >>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>> gecko mailing list >>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sun Jun 8 00:02:03 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Gecko) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:02:03 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484B136B.9010203@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080205050100020509040600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth Mahalo! I did finally manage to get them into a simple html file, so you can view them a little more easily at http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_preemie.html. There are lots of photos, so I didn't take the time to do thumbnails/enlargements, but if there are any you want to see enlargements of I can add them. I do think she has damage to some of her fingers & toes. :( I usually name the day geckos based on their red patterns so that I can remember them more easily. Or sometimes we name them based on where they like to hang out -- so one of our old timers is named Boxy, since that is where he first showed up -- hanging around one of our packing boxes when we moved to Hawaii. Based on that, I should rename him "Microwave", as that has become his current domain: he is the king of our kitchen and the microwave is his throne! Boxy has a long story and I have tons of photos of him. He is my "baby" and is a real sweetie. ;) We are kind of waiting for a name to "come to us" on this little girl. I kind of liked the name Mai, which is banana in Hawaiian (pronounced my or mah-eye), as that is the first thing I actually saw her eat ... but Dennis, my husband, didn't like that one. My photos label her Preemie, but we don't actually call her that, of course, just sweetie or baby or darling or honey or all those kinds of things. ;) I think you are right on the tail skin for sure. I am worried that it is shrinking and getting tight on her tail. And I don't think she is able to reach the edge of it to work on it herself. I put a branch in her cage as I thought she might actually like to climb on it, but she avoided it in preference to climbing on the foliage instead. I haven't tried rock, but I will look around for some flat pieces of rock that might work, too. We have _lots_ of lava rock on our lot. We also have a 10-gallon glass aquarium with a screen lid if we need more room for her. And I just bought one of those 12x18" Exo-Terra Explorarium screen terrariums off eBay, although it would be easy to "lose" her inside it, as it is darker than I expected. I really got a scare yesterday!! I didn't have the flip-top lid on her cage latched down yesterday as I was clipping wings on fruit flies and putting them in her cage, so was just leaving it closed, but not latched. I went to check on her and one of our little mourning geckos was inside her cage, probably attracted by either the papaya or the fruit flies as she had apparently not seen our little girl who was under a leaf!! I nearly died!! I opened the lid and shooed the mourning gecko out, and now I am always careful to be sure the lid is latched as well as closed!! I always feed this particular little mourning gecko, but I never expected her to crawl _inside_ a cage!! Which reminds me, I meant to ask you about your three mourning geckos you captured on Kauai ... Do you still live in Hawaii or did you move to the mainland and take them with you? Are they still living? About how long do they live in captivity? Do all of them get along with each other? Do they ever fight? Did they interact with you a lot? Right now I have three of them living in my kitchen in the window sill and my orchid pot (they go back and forth). There is always papaya & water out for them, plus I give them mealworms in the orchid pot. And right now they have added fruit flies to their diet. I worry about them getting enough bugs in the window, but I guess they must or they wouldn't have moved in. I discovered them when I kept hearing this funny little "tsk"ing noise and found a little one in the gutter of the lanai window next to my laptop. She was the first one I started feeding mealworms to, but I think she told everyone else, as we now have lots of them. Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Aloha, Sherron ~ > > I thoroughly enjoyed your e-mails and photos this afternoon!!! I'll > check them out thoroughly at work after Field Day (if it doesn't rain) > or at the library. (GGA is a great resource!!) You both have come > along way with your little Gold Dust gecko. She looks *so much > better* than before. Has she a name? > > I agree with Melody that she will probably need further human > assistance shedding that toe skin and her tail skin. After a short > break, I'd advise you to place her in the humidity chamber again > perhaps with something rougher than a paper towel to work on her tail > and toe. Do you keep anything a bit rough in her regular cage like a > twig, a small rough branch, or rock? From your photo those areas seem > to have retained more than a single shed and may be difficult for her > to remove on her own. Melody suggests peeling the tail skin down from > the vent towards the tip if I'm reading her correctly ;-} But I > realize the skin needs loosening first. > > Keep us posted, > Elizabeth > > > > In a message dated 6/5/08 5:15:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mhartley@ix.netcom.com writes: > >> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on the >> next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to back, >> like turning a cone inside out. > > > > *Elizabeth** > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > * > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------080205050100020509040600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

Mahalo! I did finally manage to get them into a simple html file, so you can view them a little more easily at http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_preemie.html. There are lots of photos, so I didn't take the time to do thumbnails/enlargements, but if there are any you want to see enlargements of I can add them. I do think she has damage to some of her fingers & toes. :(

I usually name the day geckos based on their red patterns so that I can remember them more easily. Or sometimes we name them based on where they like to hang out -- so one of our old timers is named Boxy, since that is where he first showed up -- hanging around one of our packing boxes when we moved to Hawaii. Based on that, I should rename him "Microwave", as that has become his current domain: he is the king of our kitchen and the microwave is his throne! Boxy has a long story and I have tons of photos of him. He is my "baby" and is a real sweetie. ;)

We are kind of waiting for a name to "come to us" on this little girl. I kind of liked the name Mai, which is banana in Hawaiian (pronounced my or mah-eye), as that is the first thing I actually saw her eat ... but Dennis, my husband, didn't like that one. My photos label her Preemie, but we don't actually call her that, of course, just sweetie or baby or darling or honey or all those kinds of things. ;)

I think you are right on the tail skin for sure. I am worried that it is shrinking and getting tight on her tail. And I don't think she is able to reach the edge of it to work on it herself. I put a branch in her cage as I thought she might actually like to climb on it, but she avoided it in preference to climbing on the foliage instead. I haven't tried rock, but I will look around for some flat pieces of rock that might work, too. We have lots of lava rock on our lot. We also have a 10-gallon glass aquarium with a screen lid if we need more room for her. And I just bought one of those 12x18" Exo-Terra Explorarium screen terrariums off eBay, although it would be easy to "lose" her inside it, as it is darker than I expected.

I really got a scare yesterday!! I didn't have the flip-top lid on her cage latched down yesterday as I was clipping wings on fruit flies and putting them in her cage, so was just leaving it closed, but not latched. I went to check on her and one of our little mourning geckos was inside her cage, probably attracted by either the papaya or the fruit flies as she had apparently not seen our little girl who was under a leaf!! I nearly died!! I opened the lid and shooed the mourning gecko out, and now I am always careful to be sure the lid is latched as well as closed!! I always feed this particular little mourning gecko, but I never expected her to crawl inside a cage!!

Which reminds me, I meant to ask you about your three mourning geckos you captured on Kauai ... Do you still live in Hawaii or did you move to the mainland and take them with you? Are they still living? About how long do they live in captivity? Do all of them get along with each other? Do they ever fight? Did they interact with you a lot? Right now I have three of them living in my kitchen in the window sill and my orchid pot (they go back and forth). There is always papaya & water out for them, plus I give them mealworms in the orchid pot. And right now they have added fruit flies to their diet. I worry about them getting enough bugs in the window, but I guess they must or they wouldn't have moved in. I discovered them when I kept hearing this funny little "tsk"ing noise and found a little one in the gutter of the lanai window next to my laptop. She was the first one I started feeding mealworms to, but I think she told everyone else, as we now have lots of them.

Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Aloha, Sherron ~

I thoroughly enjoyed your e-mails and photos this afternoon!!! I'll check them out thoroughly at work after Field Day (if it doesn't rain) or at the library. (GGA is a great resource!!) You both have come along way with your little Gold Dust gecko. She looks so much better than before. Has she a name?

I agree with Melody that she will probably need further human assistance shedding that toe skin and her tail skin. After a short break, I'd advise you to place her in the humidity chamber again perhaps with something rougher than a paper towel to work on her tail and toe. Do you keep anything a bit rough in her regular cage like a twig, a small rough branch, or rock? From your photo those areas seem to have retained more than a single shed and may be difficult for her to remove on her own. Melody suggests peeling the tail skin down from the vent towards the tip if I'm reading her correctly ;-} But I realize the skin needs loosening first.

Keep us posted,
Elizabeth

In a message dated 6/5/08 5:15:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mhartley@ix.netcom.com writes:

As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on the
next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to back,
like turning a cone inside out.

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
--------------080205050100020509040600-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sun Jun 8 01:37:44 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:37:44 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484B29D8.6020007@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020006000609030901030209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth I really appreciate the help the GGA list has given me! We actually tried getting the skin off before we posted to the GGA list, but it didn't do much good without the "pre-soak" in the humidity chamber for several hours first. There is nothing like experience to know what you can do without causing more harm than good. That is always my worry when trying something I haven't done before is that it may be worse than doing nothing. :( She is definitely interested in eating; always a good sign! And she is much better at getting around without that gunky skin inhibiting her movements. I will need to see what pet/supply stores there are in this area. I don't think there are many, but I can always do mail order if there isn't something local. There isn't a large selection of anything here. ;) We have named her!! Her name is Li?i, which is the Hawaiian name for "small", and is pronounced lee-ee. The "?" is an ?okina which indicates a glottal stop or short break/pause between the two i's. ;) So I have also updated the web page on her and it is now located at: http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_lii.html She is really getting around very well without the excess skin, although I think she still has a little trouble with that right leg. The toes on the right foot still tend to clump together a little, although I suspect that she may grow to adjust to it and learn to live with it. We see quite a few maimed geckos around and many of them do quite well, all things considered. She certainly is doing much, much better with it. She doesn't "lurch" anymore, but actually uses it nearly like a normal leg. ;) We sure don't want her to lose any toes or her tail if we can prevent it, so like it or not, Li?i is going to get steam bath! Or two. If we could keep her still, we could probably do it quicker, but there is not much to hold onto and she is a fast little devil! ;) She sure has lots of friends, thank goodness!! ;) Mahalo nui loa, Sherron, Dennis & Li?i ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Sherron ~ > > You are totally welcome for the assistance I was able to give thanks > to this Global Gecko Association listserv! > > I really appreciate your detailed photos. As they say, "A picture is > worth a thousand words." > > If judging by photos is a reliable sign, her belly definitely seems to > be full of the bugs you've been catching. If she proves to be a > long-term captive you may want to dust her bugs with a calcium > supplement. That will be easier once she is eating bigger stuff ;-} > I recommend Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. Can > you get that on the island? > > Your survivor needs a name! You've given her a new life!!! How is > her gait since you've removed the excess skin except for her tail? In > your recent photos her right leg seems to bend like normal. > > The thing about retained skin, which may have ultimately been > affecting her breathing (?) is that the digit (toe) can become > necrotic and then slough off. That is why I'm worried about the > retained skin on her tail as I said in an earlier post tonight. You > have resolved the crucial things first while still saving the > "patient". So in a few days you can try again with her tail. > > Cheers! > Elizabeth > > > >> Subj:*Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >> trouble shedding ... Ok! But what about the tail?* >> Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >> Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a few >> seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down! >> >> But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her >> tail. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that >> is all that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the >> skin wear off by itself just from her moving around or do we need to >> make sure it is off, too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking >> off. >> >> We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems >> blackened and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands >> don't seem very well developed. >> >> Right foot Right hand >> >> >> We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and >> she didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert >> & curious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look >> in her cage. ;) >> >> We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not >> have made it without your assistance. I have never actually held a >> live gecko before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite >> a bit. It is really nice having her around. ;) >> >> I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post >> the address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;) >> >> Mahalo nui loa, >> Sherron >> >> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>> Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight >>> pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? >>> I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her >>> firmly against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that >>> something works for you both. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: elizabethfreer@aol.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am >>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding ... >>> >>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>> >>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >>> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >>> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >>> loose enough to start a split. >>> >>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up >>> against to assist in the shed. >>> >>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>> >>> Keep us posted! >>> >>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>> roamed freely ;-] >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>> >>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>> >>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>> >>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, >>>> too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that >>>> may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>> >>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>> her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, >>>> and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>> >>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>> >>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But >>>> we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>> for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>> have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos >>>> running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>> them first. :( >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>> >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container >>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>> >>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>> here? >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>> > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped > and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out > of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, > but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the > hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, > but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect > for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around > her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, > so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to > have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it > around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see > how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around > her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is > several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little > girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > > *Elizabeth** > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > * > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------020006000609030901030209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

I really appreciate the help the GGA list has given me! We actually tried getting the skin off before we posted to the GGA list, but it didn't do much good without the "pre-soak" in the humidity chamber for several hours first. There is nothing like experience to know what you can do without causing more harm than good. That is always my worry when trying something I haven't done before is that it may be worse than doing nothing. :(

She is definitely interested in eating; always a good sign! And she is much better at getting around without that gunky skin inhibiting her movements. I will need to see what pet/supply stores there are in this area. I don't think there are many, but I can always do mail order if there isn't something local. There isn't a large selection of anything here. ;)

We have named her!! Her name is Liʽi, which is the Hawaiian name for "small", and is pronounced lee-ee. The "ʽ" is an ʽokina which indicates a glottal stop or short break/pause between the two i's. ;)

So I have also updated the web page on her and it is now located at: http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_lii.html

She is really getting around very well without the excess skin, although I think she still has a little trouble with that right leg. The toes on the right foot still tend to clump together a little, although I suspect that she may grow to adjust to it and learn to live with it. We see quite a few maimed geckos around and many of them do quite well, all things considered. She certainly is doing much, much better with it. She doesn't "lurch" anymore, but actually uses it nearly like a normal leg. ;)

We sure don't want her to lose any toes or her tail if we can prevent it, so like it or not, Liʽi is going to get steam bath! Or two. If we could keep her still, we could probably do it quicker, but there is not much to hold onto and she is a fast little devil! ;)

She sure has lots of friends, thank goodness!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron, Dennis & Liʽi

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Sherron ~

You are totally welcome for the assistance I was able to give thanks to this Global Gecko Association listserv!

I really appreciate your detailed photos. As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words."

If judging by photos is a reliable sign, her belly definitely seems to be full of the bugs you've been catching. If she proves to be a long-term captive you may want to dust her bugs with a calcium supplement. That will be easier once she is eating bigger stuff ;-} I recommend Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. Can you get that on the island?

Your survivor needs a name! You've given her a new life!!! How is her gait since you've removed the excess skin except for her tail? In your recent photos her right leg seems to bend like normal.

The thing about retained skin, which may have ultimately been affecting her breathing (?) is that the digit (toe) can become necrotic and then slough off. That is why I'm worried about the retained skin on her tail as I said in an earlier post tonight. You have resolved the crucial things first while still saving the "patient". So in a few days you can try again with her tail.

Cheers!
Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Ok! But what about the tail?
Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a few seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down!

But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tail. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is all that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off by itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off, too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking off.

We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well developed.

Right foot           Right hand

We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & curious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage. ;)

We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have made it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live gecko before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It is really nice having her around. ;)

I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:

Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that something works for you both.

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: elizabethfreer@aol.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...

And Aloha Sherron ~

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
--------------020006000609030901030209-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sun Jun 8 02:56:02 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2008 21:56:02 EDT Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Message-ID: --part1_bb8.2c9a0286.357c9632_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mahalo, All~ Any chance you could buy a very small sewing scissors? My sewing scissors have much smaller points and blades than the scissors on my Swiss army knife. I admire you clipping the wings of the fruit flies. I don't know whether my fingers would be nimble enough. Sounds like "clipped flies" is becoming a popular menu item at your home with four-legged visitors and the like ;-] You might try covering the top of Li?i's cage with a loosely woven cloth at feeding time to keep the flies in till they are consumed. I cover the tops of all my cricket cages just to keep them from escaping...even the 1.5 wos. Melody and I order our crickets from Sunshine Mealworms (www.sunshinemealworms.com, 1-800-322-1100) in Silverton, Oregon. Perhaps they would be a fine and quicker source for your mealworms. The Beanfarm (www.beanfarm.com) near Seattle, Washington carries the pink label Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. I have heard that the Exo-Terra tanks might have an "escape hole" in the back where the tube outlet is. I think the roughness of a rough rock or small branch would be good for your rescued Gold Dust. Now it sounds as if she has more energy than before and might even use such to rough up her toes and especially her tail after a few more steam baths. I was going to suggest "Mahalo" or the Hawaiian word expressing her thanks, but I see you've already decided upon a name. I mean she owes her life to you and Dennis! I have only visited Maui, Kauai, and Oahu. I first visited Maui in 1984. I visited Kauai in 1988 and caught my first three Lepidodactylus lugubris. At the time all I needed to do to bring them home was take them to a Kauai vet who certified them as "healthy". Then we were off to Seattle. One of those mourning geckos lived more than 17.5 years and was still laying eggs! Then I inadvertently left the screen top ajar and she escaped. Cheers, Elizabeth > Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble > shedding ... > Date:6/7/08 5:38:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Aloha, Elizabeth I really appreciate the help the GGA list has given me! We actually tried getting the skin off before we posted to the GGA list, but it didn't do much good without the "pre-soak" in the humidity chamber for several hours first. There is nothing like experience to know what you can do without causing more harm than good. That is always my worry when trying something I haven't done before is that it may be worse than doing nothing. :( She is definitely interested in eating; always a good sign! And she is much better at getting around without that gunky skin inhibiting her movements. I will need to see what pet/supply stores there are in this area. I don't think there are many, but I can always do mail order if there isn't something local. There isn't a large selection of anything here. ;) We have named her!! Her name is Li?i, which is the Hawaiian name for "small", and is pronounced lee-ee. The "?" is an ?okina which indicates a glottal stop or short break/pause between the two i's. ;) So I have also updated the web page on her and it is now located at: http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_lii.html She is really getting around very well without the excess skin, although I think she still has a little trouble with that right leg. The toes on the right foot still tend to clump together a little, although I suspect that she may grow to adjust to it and learn to live with it. We see quite a few maimed geckos around and many of them do quite well, all things considered. She certainly is doing much, much better with it. She doesn't "lurch" anymore, but actually uses it nearly like a normal leg. ;) We sure don't want her to lose any toes or her tail if we can prevent it, so like it or not, Li?i is going to get steam bath! Or two. If we could keep her still, we could probably do it quicker, but there is not much to hold onto and she is a fast little devil! ;) She sure has lots of friends, thank goodness!! ;) Mahalo nui loa, Sherron, Dennis & Li?i ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Sherron ~ > > You are totally welcome for the assistance I was able to give thanks to this > Global Gecko Association listserv! > > I really appreciate your detailed photos. As they say, "A picture is worth > a thousand words." > > If judging by photos is a reliable sign, her belly definitely seems to be > full of the bugs you've been catching. If she proves to be a long-term captive > you may want to dust her bugs with a calcium supplement. That will be > easier once she is eating bigger stuff ;-} I recommend Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free > Ultrafine Powder with D3. Can you get that on the island? > > Your survivor needs a name! You've given her a new life!!! How is her gait > since you've removed the excess skin except for her tail? In your recent > photos her right leg seems to bend like normal. > > The thing about retained skin, which may have ultimately been affecting her > breathing (?) is that the digit (toe) can become necrotic and then slough > off. That is why I'm worried about the retained skin on her tail as I said in > an earlier post tonight. You have resolved the crucial things first while > still saving the "patient". So in a few days you can try again with her tail. > > Cheers! > Elizabeth > > > > >> Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble >> shedding ... Ok! But what about the tail? >> Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >> Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a few >> seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down! >> >> But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tail. >> We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is all that >> is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off by >> itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off, too? We >> are just so afraid of the tail breaking off. >> >> We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened and >> crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well >> developed. >> >> Right foot Right hand >> >> >> We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she >> didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & curious >> and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage. ;) >> >> We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have made >> it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live gecko >> before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It is really >> nice having her around. ;) >> >> I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the >> address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;) >> >> Mahalo nui loa, >> Sherron >> >> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight >>> pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't >>> know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly against >>> some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that something works for you >>> both. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: elizabethfreer@aol.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am >>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding ... >>> >>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>> >>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for >>> a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in >>> the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only >>> a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split. >>> >>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of >>> choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist >>> in the shed. >>> >>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>> >>> Keep us posted! >>> >>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed >>> freely ;-] >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> >>> >>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>> >>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko >>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings >>>> are even tinier. >>>> >>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull >>>> off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We >>>> have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, >>>> but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high >>>> enough. >>>> >>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her >>>> right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. >>>> She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may >>>> be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the >>>> skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it >>>> restricts her movement. >>>> >>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already >>>> been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently >>>> started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are >>>> only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat >>>> those. >>>> >>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when >>>> the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming >>>> a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because >>>> her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has >>>> come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray! >>>> >>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all >>>> around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an >>>> exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just >>>> take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- >>>> we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long >>>> if we don't get to them first. :( >>>> >>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>> >>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because >>>> my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko >>>> is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing >>>> your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. >>>> Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water >>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so >>>> perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>> >>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here? >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble >>>> shedding "egg skin" >>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky. We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl. Mahalo, Sherron Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_bb8.2c9a0286.357c9632_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mahalo, All~

Any chance you could buy a very small sewing scissors? My sewing s= cissors have much smaller points and blades than the scissors on my Swiss ar= my knife.

I admire you clipping the wings of the fruit flies. I don't know w= hether my fingers would be nimble enough. Sounds like "clipped flies"=20= is becoming a popular menu item at your home with four-legged visitors and t= he like ;-] You might try covering the top of Li?i's cage with a loose= ly woven cloth at feeding time to keep the flies in till they are consumed.=20= I cover the tops of all my cricket cages just to keep them from escapi= ng...even the 1.5 wos.

Melody and I order our crickets from Sunshine Mealworms (www.sunshinemea= lworms.com, 1-800-322-1100) in Silverton, Oregon. Perhaps they would b= e a fine and quicker source for your mealworms. The Beanfarm (www.beanfarm.c= om) near Seattle, Washington carries the pink label Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free=20= Ultrafine Powder with D3.

I have heard that the Exo-Terra tanks might have an "escape hole" in the= back where the tube outlet is.

I think the roughness of a rough rock or small branch would be good for=20= your rescued Gold Dust. Now it sounds as if she has more energy than b= efore and might even use such to rough up her toes and especially her tail a= fter a few more steam baths.

I was going to suggest "Mahalo" or the Hawaiian word expressing her than= ks, but I see you've already decided upon a name. I mean she owes her=20= life to you and Dennis!

I have only visited Maui, Kauai, and Oahu. I first visited Maui in= 1984. I visited Kauai in 1988 and caught my first three Lepidodactylu= s lugubris. At the time all I needed to do to bring them home was take= them to a Kauai vet who certified them as "healthy". Then we were off= to Seattle. One of those mourning geckos lived more than 17.5 years a= nd was still laying eggs! Then I inadvertently left the screen top aja= r and she escaped.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question= on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
Date:6/7/08 5:38:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

I really appreciate the help the GGA list has given me! We actually trie= d getting the skin off before we posted to the GGA list, but it didn't do mu= ch good without the "pre-soak" in the humidity chamber for several hours fir= st. There is nothing like experience to know what you can do without causing= more harm than good. That is always my worry when trying something I=20= haven't done before is that it may be worse than doing nothing. :(

She is definitely interested in eating; always a good sign! And she is m= uch better at getting around without that gunky skin inhibiting her movement= s. I will need to see what pet/supply stores there are in this area. I don't= think there are many, but I can always do mail order if there isn't somethi= ng local. There isn't a large selection of anything here. ;)

We have named her!! Her name is Li?i, which is the Hawaiian name f= or "small", and is pronounced lee-ee. The "?" is an ?okina which indicates a= glottal stop or short break/pause between the two i's. ;)

So I have also updated the web page on her and it is now located at: &nb= sp;http://hale-pohaku.net/= gecko_lii.html

She is really getting around very well without the excess skin, although= I think she still has a little trouble with that right leg. The toes on the= right foot still tend to clump together a little, although I suspect that s= he may grow to adjust to it and learn to live with it. We see quite a few ma= imed geckos around and many of them do quite well, all things considered. Sh= e certainly is doing much, much better with it. She doesn't "lurch" anymore,= but actually uses it nearly like a normal leg. ;)

We sure don't want her to lose any toes or her tail if we can prevent it= , so like it or not, Li?i is going to get steam bath! Or two. If we could ke= ep her still, we could probably do it quicker, but there is not much to hold= onto and she is a fast little devil! ;)

She sure has lots of friends, thank goodness!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron, Dennis & Li?i

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wr= ote:
Sherron ~=20

You are totally welcome for the assistance I was able to give thanks to=20= this Global Gecko Association listserv!=20

I really appreciate your detailed photos. As they say, "A picture=20= is worth a thousand words."=20

If judging by photos is a reliable sign, her belly definitely seems to b= e full of the bugs you've been catching. If she proves to be a long-te= rm captive you may want to dust her bugs with a calcium supplement. Th= at will be easier once she is eating bigger stuff ;-} I recommend Rep-= Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. Can you get that on the=20= island?=20

Your survivor needs a name! You've given her a new life!!! H= ow is her gait since you've removed the excess skin except for her tail? &nb= sp;In your recent photos her right leg seems to bend like normal.=20

The thing about retained skin, which may have ultimately been affecting=20= her breathing (?) is that the digit (toe) can become necrotic and then sloug= h off. That is why I'm worried about the retained skin on her tail as=20= I said in an earlier post tonight. You have resolved the crucial thing= s first while still saving the "patient". So in a few days you can try= again with her tail.=20

Cheers!=20
Elizabeth=20

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question= on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Ok! But what a= bout the tail?=20
Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time=20
From:    gecko.ha= le@gmail.com (Sherron)=20
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=20
To:    gecko@l= ists.gekkota.com=20

Aloha, Elizabeth=20

Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a f= ew seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down!=20

But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tai= l. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is al= l that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off=20= by itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off,=20= too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking off.=20

We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened=20= and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well= developed.=20

Right foot           R= ight hand=20

We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she= didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & cur= ious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage.= ;)=20

We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have m= ade it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live geck= o before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It=20= is really nice having her around. ;)=20

I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the=20= address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;)=20

Mahalo nui loa,=20
Sherron=20

elizabethfreer@aol.com wr= ote:
Do you have a small scissor= s for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a spl= it/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't know how active she is, but y= ou might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a= table. Hope that something works for you both.=20

Elizabeth=20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: elizabethfreer@aol.com=20
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com=20
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am=20
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having tro= uble shedding ...=20

And Aloha Sherron ~=20

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a l= amp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and p= lace it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets for= m. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to=20= start a split.=20

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a secti= on of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to as= sist in the shed.=20

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!=20

Keep us posted!=20

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed f= reely ;-]=20

Elizabeth=20

Aloha, Elizabeth=20

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hat= chling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are= even tinier.=20

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to=20= pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off.= We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next t= o it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high e= nough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her=20= right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. S= he often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be= something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin= problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her=20= movement.=20

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already= been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently start= ed splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are on= ly about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat thos= e.=20

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a= problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because he= r little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come= off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!=20

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all=20= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus= frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an=20= exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just=20= take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we h= ave lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we=20= don't get to them first. :(=20

Mahalo, Sherron=20

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wr= ote:
Hello Sherron ~=20

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home b= ecause my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this g= ecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Tr= y placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcl= oth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will= notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. A= fter a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around h= er neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.=20

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet h= ere?=20

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble=20= shedding "egg skin"=20
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time=20
From:    gecko.ha= le@gmail.com (Sherron)=20
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=20
To:    gecko@l= ists.gekkota.com=20

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped=20= and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the= shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spun= ky.=20

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the h= atchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but sh= e has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her= . She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, b= ut I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.=20

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy,= so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have= started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her ne= ck that she can't get off.=20

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how= we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck= should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and= is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(=20

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little g= irl.=20

Mahalo, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing bur= gers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food= .aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_bb8.2c9a0286.357c9632_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sun Jun 8 07:39:21 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 22:39:21 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... In-Reply-To: <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> Hi Sharron, I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com. They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you don't need the kind with D3 in it. Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended them and maybe that will make a difference ;-) You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet! Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second person holding the gecko. Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't ship them to Oregon though, LOL! Best of luck! Melody Gecko wrote: > Aloha, Melody > > Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to google > for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to have an > import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the geckos! Right > now, we are having problems finding someone to ship quickly enough in > the summer, even with the license. We need a good supplier that ships > from somewhere near the west coast as all the places I know are mid or > east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 a year for unlimited > shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu for inspection! If > flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would cost the same. Hawaii > actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is huge -- about the size of > a small house fly. Too big for our little Preemie girl as it is almost > the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! > > Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always > ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss army > knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! I can > sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! Much easier! ;) > > We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. And > it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to get it > off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her tail. Not > that she liked the rest of it, but that part always bothered her the > most and she would take off like a bolt!! > > Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved > away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real > familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, but > I sure like the name! ;) > > Mahalo, > Sherron > > Melody Hartley wrote: > >> Aloha Sharron, >> >> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to >> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch >> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can raise >> flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that because I >> keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos too. You'd >> have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one shipped to you >> if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the flying ones >> because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give you more info if >> you're interested. >> >> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any >> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go >> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! >> >> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on the >> next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front to >> back, like turning a cone inside out. >> >> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although pronounced >> differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" -- ah-LO-ah. >> >> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) >> >> Melody >> >> Gecko wrote: >> >>> Aloha, Melody >>> >>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that >>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) >>> >>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper towel >>> on top of it and she liked that better. >>> >>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf with >>> red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on paper >>> towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we have tons >>> of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out on. And all >>> the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the bananas are their >>> favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and house. ;) >>> >>> Mahalo, >>> Sherron >>> >>> >>> >>> Melody Hartley wrote: >>> >>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full >>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be >>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >>>> >>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >>>>> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >>>>> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >>>>> loose enough to start a split. >>>>> >>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up >>>>> against to assist in the shed. >>>>> >>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>>>> >>>>> Keep us posted! >>>>> >>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>>>> roamed freely ;-] >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>>> gecko >>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>>>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>> >>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >>>>> and >>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>> clumped >>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a >>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. >>>>> Although >>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be >>>>> the >>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>>> >>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>>> only >>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her >>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and >>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>> >>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >>>>> body >>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>>> >>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >>>>> run >>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>> house - >>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). >>>>> But we >>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for >>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>>> have a >>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them >>>>> first. :( >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>> >>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know >>>>>> how >>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>>> here? >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>> >>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the >>>>>> rest of >>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >>>>>> very >>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >>>>>> up. >>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>> has a >>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>> >>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>> little girl. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Gecko >>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >>>>> having trouble shedding ... >>>>> >>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>> >>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and >>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, >>>>> too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that >>>>> may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>>> >>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>>> her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, >>>>> and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>> >>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body >>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in >>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>>> >>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run >>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - >>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But >>>>> we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>>> for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>>> have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos >>>>> running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>>> them first. :( >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>> >>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>>> here? >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>> >>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of >>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very >>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. >>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a >>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>> >>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>> little girl. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>>>>> >>>>>> l l >>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ >>>>>> /..\ ^^ >>>>>> l l ^^ llll >>>>>> \\\ l l llll /// >>>>>> l l llll \\\ >>>>>> l l ~~ llll /// >>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>> ( ) ( >>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>> lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) >>>>>> 17.50 yo >>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p. >>>>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ************** >>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>>>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) >>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - >>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Global Gecko Association >>>> http://www.gekkota.com >>>> Classifieds >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>>> gecko mailing list >>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Global Gecko Association >> http://www.gekkota.com >> Classifieds >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >> gecko mailing list >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >> > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 00:39:46 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:39:46 -1000 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050407030300090605090305 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Kind Friends I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent that it is hopeless. This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile floor. When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was obvious it hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for the best. By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken, she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had been any hope ... :( If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in the islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical treatment for _humans_ is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and animals is sadly lacking. And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with. I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet. Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any animal banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there were good gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat a day gecko since they cannot be legally kept. So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need something else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like this poor little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could chew and coughed her back up. We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her was worse than the pain she was suffering. I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would be quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos, it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :( Mahalo, Sherron ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------050407030300090605090305 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------020106030105020006080404" --------------020106030105020006080404 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Kind Friends

I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent that it is hopeless.

This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile floor. When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was obvious it hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for the best.

By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken, she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had been any hope ... :(

If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in the islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and animals is sadly lacking.

And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.

I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet.

Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any animal banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there were good gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat a day gecko since they cannot be legally kept.

So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need something else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like this poor little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could chew and coughed her back up.

We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her was worse than the pain she was suffering.

I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would be quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos, it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(

Mahalo, Sherron
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
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In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <484C7966.6050403@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090702000005010105040309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth I have started covering the top of her cage with some flexible window screen we have and that does help. She is so cute when she stalks the flies -- and she is getting better! It doesn't take many to fill her tummy, but she gets hungry again quickly. Actually, I probably have some tiny scissors in a travel sewing kit somewhere!! Didn't think of that, as I seldom have need for them. I will have to look for them. I have gotten pretty good with the Swiss army knife, though. The hardest part is catching the flies and then getting hold of them before they warm back up from the refrigerator! It doesn't take long in our weather! ;D Oh darn! I really appreciate the Sunshine Mealworms source, but they said there is a nationwide shortage of mealworms right now so they aren't accepting new customers!! I wonder why there would be a shortage? I know my supplier got out of the business, but I don't think one person could cause a "nationwide shortage!" I wonder what is going on?? Back to google, I guess, and I will put a watch on them & try them again later. I don't actually have a tank, I have one of those fold-up mesh screened things that you can take out with you on "hunting trips". Since we really don't normally keep them captive, it seemed like that might serve better for when actually needed some kind of container. And we also had the 10-gallon glass aquarium with screen top from when we had our rats years ago, so we can use that, too. But I will check the fold-up one very carefully before I put anyone into it to be sure there isn't any way they can escape. We have already experienced their amazing escape abilities when we have tried to keep hatchlings overnight for morning release! ;) I have been looking around for some nice rocks, branches, and the like for the bottom of her cage. It should give her something more interesting than leaves, too. Is there anything I should avoid that might harm her? I have read that sand should not be used because they might eat it and become impacted. Is there anything else I should avoid or watch out for? I really don't want to hurt her! Wow! 17.5 years is wonderful! That is so sad that she ran away. I wonder if she survived, the poor little thing. Sometimes they are just too smart for their own good. That was smart! We first visited the islands in 1976 and I fell in love with the geckos, but I never thought about trying to catch them and take them back with me! We were on our honeymoon and I remember watching the baby house geckos all over the place over in Hilo. They were so common back then. Of course, they might have been mourning geckos, too! I didn't know that much about the differences then. ;D What kind do you keep now? I love some of the colors and would love to be have some I could hold ... but of course none of them are allowed into Hawaii. All the ones running around here do keep me busy, though, so I can't complain. ;) Sherron ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Mahalo, All~ > > Any chance you could buy a very small sewing scissors? My sewing > scissors have much smaller points and blades than the scissors on my > Swiss army knife. > > I admire you clipping the wings of the fruit flies. I don't know > whether my fingers would be nimble enough. Sounds like "clipped > flies" is becoming a popular menu item at your home with four-legged > visitors and the like ;-] You might try covering the top of Li?i's > cage with a loosely woven cloth at feeding time to keep the flies in > till they are consumed. I cover the tops of all my cricket cages just > to keep them from escaping...even the 1.5 wos. > > Melody and I order our crickets from Sunshine Mealworms > (www.sunshinemealworms.com, 1-800-322-1100) in Silverton, Oregon. > Perhaps they would be a fine and quicker source for your mealworms. > The Beanfarm (www.beanfarm.com) near Seattle, Washington carries the > pink label Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. > > I have heard that the Exo-Terra tanks might have an "escape hole" in > the back where the tube outlet is. > > I think the roughness of a rough rock or small branch would be good > for your rescued Gold Dust. Now it sounds as if she has more energy > than before and might even use such to rough up her toes and > especially her tail after a few more steam baths. > > I was going to suggest "Mahalo" or the Hawaiian word expressing her > thanks, but I see you've already decided upon a name. I mean she owes > her life to you and Dennis! > > I have only visited Maui, Kauai, and Oahu. I first visited Maui in > 1984. I visited Kauai in 1988 and caught my first three > Lepidodactylus lugubris. At the time all I needed to do to bring them > home was take them to a Kauai vet who certified them as "healthy". > Then we were off to Seattle. One of those mourning geckos lived more > than 17.5 years and was still laying eggs! Then I inadvertently left > the screen top ajar and she escaped. > > Cheers, > Elizabeth > > >> Subj:*Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >> trouble shedding ...* >> Date:6/7/08 5:38:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> > Aloha, Elizabeth > > I really appreciate the help the GGA list has given me! We actually > tried getting the skin off before we posted to the GGA list, but it > didn't do much good without the "pre-soak" in the humidity chamber for > several hours first. There is nothing like experience to know what you > can do without causing more harm than good. That is always my worry > when trying something I haven't done before is that it may be worse > than doing nothing. :( > > She is definitely interested in eating; always a good sign! And she is > much better at getting around without that gunky skin inhibiting her > movements. I will need to see what pet/supply stores there are in this > area. I don't think there are many, but I can always do mail order if > there isn't something local. There isn't a large selection of anything > here. ;) > > We have named her!! Her name is Li?i, which is the Hawaiian name for > "small", and is pronounced lee-ee. The "?" is an ?okina which > indicates a glottal stop or short break/pause between the two i's. ;) > > So I have also updated the web page on her and it is now located at: > http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_lii.html > > She is really getting around very well without the excess skin, > although I think she still has a little trouble with that right leg. > The toes on the right foot still tend to clump together a little, > although I suspect that she may grow to adjust to it and learn to live > with it. We see quite a few maimed geckos around and many of them do > quite well, all things considered. She certainly is doing much, much > better with it. She doesn't "lurch" anymore, but actually uses it > nearly like a normal leg. ;) > > We sure don't want her to lose any toes or her tail if we can prevent > it, so like it or not, Li?i is going to get steam bath! Or two. If we > could keep her still, we could probably do it quicker, but there is > not much to hold onto and she is a fast little devil! ;) > > She sure has lots of friends, thank goodness!! ;) > > Mahalo nui loa, > Sherron, Dennis & Li?i > > ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> Sherron ~ >> >> You are totally welcome for the assistance I was able to give thanks >> to this Global Gecko Association listserv! >> >> I really appreciate your detailed photos. As they say, "A picture is >> worth a thousand words." >> >> If judging by photos is a reliable sign, her belly definitely seems >> to be full of the bugs you've been catching. If she proves to be a >> long-term captive you may want to dust her bugs with a calcium >> supplement. That will be easier once she is eating bigger stuff ;-} >> I recommend Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. Can >> you get that on the island? >> >> Your survivor needs a name! You've given her a new life!!! How is >> her gait since you've removed the excess skin except for her tail? >> In your recent photos her right leg seems to bend like normal. >> >> The thing about retained skin, which may have ultimately been >> affecting her breathing (?) is that the digit (toe) can become >> necrotic and then slough off. That is why I'm worried about the >> retained skin on her tail as I said in an earlier post tonight. You >> have resolved the crucial things first while still saving the >> "patient". So in a few days you can try again with her tail. >> >> Cheers! >> Elizabeth >> >> >> >>> Subj:*Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>> trouble shedding ... Ok! But what about the tail?* >>> Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time >>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>> >>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> >>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>> >>> Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a >>> few seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down! >>> >>> But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her >>> tail. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that >>> is all that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the >>> skin wear off by itself just from her moving around or do we need to >>> make sure it is off, too? We are just so afraid of the tail >>> breaking off. >>> >>> We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems >>> blackened and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands >>> don't seem very well developed. >>> >>> Right foot Right hand >>> >>> >>> We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and >>> she didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very >>> alert & curious and always comes out to look at us when we go over >>> to look in her cage. ;) >>> >>> We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not >>> have made it without your assistance. I have never actually held a >>> live gecko before, although I have had them jump or fall on me >>> quite a bit. It is really nice having her around. ;) >>> >>> I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post >>> the address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;) >>> >>> Mahalo nui loa, >>> Sherron >>> >>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>>> Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight >>>> pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? >>>> I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her >>>> firmly against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that >>>> something works for you both. >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: elizabethfreer@aol.com >>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am >>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >>>> having trouble shedding ... >>>> >>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>>> >>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out >>>> and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water >>>> droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be >>>> loose enough to start a split. >>>> >>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up >>>> against to assist in the shed. >>>> >>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>>> >>>> Keep us posted! >>>> >>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>>> roamed freely ;-] >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> >>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>> >>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to >>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck >>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>> >>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the >>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some >>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her >>>>> movement. >>>>> >>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>>> her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, >>>>> and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>> >>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. >>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray! >>>>> >>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus >>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she >>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings >>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots >>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we >>>>> don't get to them first. :( >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>> >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home >>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how >>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a *vented* plastic container >>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you >>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>> >>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet >>>>> here? >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Subj:*[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"* >>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> >>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped > and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out > of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, > but is spunky. > > We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the > hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, > but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect > for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around > her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet. > > But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, > so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to > have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it > around her neck that she can't get off. > > Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see > how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around > her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is > several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :( > > Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little > girl. > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > *Elizabeth** > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > * > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All */Lepidodactylus lugubris/*!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > Florence" on AOL Food. > (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------090702000005010105040309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Elizabeth

I have started covering the top of her cage with some flexible window screen we have and that does help. She is so cute when she stalks the flies -- and she is getting better! It doesn't take many to fill her tummy, but she gets hungry again quickly.

Actually, I probably have some tiny scissors in a travel sewing kit somewhere!! Didn't think of that, as I seldom have need for them. I will have to look for them. I have gotten pretty good with the Swiss army knife, though. The hardest part is catching the flies and then getting hold of them before they warm back up from the refrigerator! It doesn't take long in our weather! ;D

Oh darn! I really appreciate the Sunshine Mealworms source, but they said there is a nationwide shortage of mealworms right now so they aren't accepting new customers!! I wonder why there would be a shortage? I know my supplier got out of the business, but I don't think one person could cause a "nationwide shortage!" I wonder what is going on?? Back to google, I guess, and I will put a watch on them & try them again later.

I don't actually have a tank, I have one of those fold-up mesh screened things that you can take out with you on "hunting trips". Since we really don't normally keep them captive, it seemed like that might serve better for when actually needed some kind of container. And we also had the 10-gallon glass aquarium with screen top from when we had our rats years ago, so we can use that, too. But I will check the fold-up one very carefully before I put anyone into it to be sure there isn't any way they can escape. We have already experienced their amazing escape abilities when we have tried to keep hatchlings overnight for morning release! ;)

I have been looking around for some nice rocks, branches, and the like for the bottom of her cage. It should give her something more interesting than leaves, too. Is there anything I should avoid that might harm her? I have read that sand should not be used because they might eat it and become impacted. Is there anything else I should avoid or watch out for? I really don't want to hurt her!

Wow! 17.5 years is wonderful! That is so sad that she ran away. I wonder if she survived, the poor little thing. Sometimes they are just too smart for their own good. That was smart! We first visited the islands in 1976 and I fell in love with the geckos, but I never thought about trying to catch them and take them back with me! We were on our honeymoon and I remember watching the baby house geckos all over the place over in Hilo. They were so common back then. Of course, they might have been mourning geckos, too! I didn't know that much about the differences then. ;D

What kind do you keep now? I love some of the colors and would love to be have some I could hold ... but of course none of them are allowed into Hawaii. All the ones running around here do keep me busy, though, so I can't complain. ;)

Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Mahalo, All~

Any chance you could buy a very small sewing scissors? My sewing scissors have much smaller points and blades than the scissors on my Swiss army knife.

I admire you clipping the wings of the fruit flies. I don't know whether my fingers would be nimble enough. Sounds like "clipped flies" is becoming a popular menu item at your home with four-legged visitors and the like ;-] You might try covering the top of Li?i's cage with a loosely woven cloth at feeding time to keep the flies in till they are consumed. I cover the tops of all my cricket cages just to keep them from escaping...even the 1.5 wos.

Melody and I order our crickets from Sunshine Mealworms (www.sunshinemealworms.com, 1-800-322-1100) in Silverton, Oregon. Perhaps they would be a fine and quicker source for your mealworms. The Beanfarm (www.beanfarm.com) near Seattle, Washington carries the pink label Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3.

I have heard that the Exo-Terra tanks might have an "escape hole" in the back where the tube outlet is.

I think the roughness of a rough rock or small branch would be good for your rescued Gold Dust. Now it sounds as if she has more energy than before and might even use such to rough up her toes and especially her tail after a few more steam baths.

I was going to suggest "Mahalo" or the Hawaiian word expressing her thanks, but I see you've already decided upon a name. I mean she owes her life to you and Dennis!

I have only visited Maui, Kauai, and Oahu. I first visited Maui in 1984. I visited Kauai in 1988 and caught my first three Lepidodactylus lugubris. At the time all I needed to do to bring them home was take them to a Kauai vet who certified them as "healthy". Then we were off to Seattle. One of those mourning geckos lived more than 17.5 years and was still laying eggs! Then I inadvertently left the screen top ajar and she escaped.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...
Date:6/7/08 5:38:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

I really appreciate the help the GGA list has given me! We actually tried getting the skin off before we posted to the GGA list, but it didn't do much good without the "pre-soak" in the humidity chamber for several hours first. There is nothing like experience to know what you can do without causing more harm than good. That is always my worry when trying something I haven't done before is that it may be worse than doing nothing. :(

She is definitely interested in eating; always a good sign! And she is much better at getting around without that gunky skin inhibiting her movements. I will need to see what pet/supply stores there are in this area. I don't think there are many, but I can always do mail order if there isn't something local. There isn't a large selection of anything here. ;)

We have named her!! Her name is Li?i, which is the Hawaiian name for "small", and is pronounced lee-ee. The "?" is an ?okina which indicates a glottal stop or short break/pause between the two i's. ;)

So I have also updated the web page on her and it is now located at: http://hale-pohaku.net/gecko_lii.html

She is really getting around very well without the excess skin, although I think she still has a little trouble with that right leg. The toes on the right foot still tend to clump together a little, although I suspect that she may grow to adjust to it and learn to live with it. We see quite a few maimed geckos around and many of them do quite well, all things considered. She certainly is doing much, much better with it. She doesn't "lurch" anymore, but actually uses it nearly like a normal leg. ;)

We sure don't want her to lose any toes or her tail if we can prevent it, so like it or not, Li?i is going to get steam bath! Or two. If we could keep her still, we could probably do it quicker, but there is not much to hold onto and she is a fast little devil! ;)

She sure has lots of friends, thank goodness!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron, Dennis & Li?i

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:

Sherron ~

You are totally welcome for the assistance I was able to give thanks to this Global Gecko Association listserv!

I really appreciate your detailed photos. As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words."

If judging by photos is a reliable sign, her belly definitely seems to be full of the bugs you've been catching. If she proves to be a long-term captive you may want to dust her bugs with a calcium supplement. That will be easier once she is eating bigger stuff ;-} I recommend Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Ultrafine Powder with D3. Can you get that on the island?

Your survivor needs a name! You've given her a new life!!! How is her gait since you've removed the excess skin except for her tail? In your recent photos her right leg seems to bend like normal.

The thing about retained skin, which may have ultimately been affecting her breathing (?) is that the digit (toe) can become necrotic and then slough off. That is why I'm worried about the retained skin on her tail as I said in an earlier post tonight. You have resolved the crucial things first while still saving the "patient". So in a few days you can try again with her tail.

Cheers!
Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ... Ok! But what about the tail?
Date:6/5/08 11:07:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Elizabeth

Oh, she is VERY active!!! She doesn't hold still for more than a few seconds and she is so tiny, we are afraid to try to hold her down!

But we have now managed to get everything off except the skin on her tail. We had hoped that she might be able to chew it off since that is all that is left, but she doesn't seem to be doing so. Will the skin wear off by itself just from her moving around or do we need to make sure it is off, too? We are just so afraid of the tail breaking off.

We did notice that she has a toe on her right foot that seems blackened and crumpled. And the lines on the bottoms of her hands don't seem very well developed.

Right foot           Right hand

We had to repeat the steam bath/clean-up routines multiple times and she didn't like it, but she was really a good girl. She is very alert & curious and always comes out to look at us when we go over to look in her cage. ;)

We thank you all so much for your help. I am afraid she would not have made it without your assistance. I have never actually held a live gecko before, although I have had them jump or fall on me quite a bit. It is really nice having her around. ;)

I am trying to put some photos of her up on the web and I will post the address when I get them up. We have taken lots!! ;)

Mahalo nui loa,
Sherron

elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:

Do you have a small scissors for sewing (or even perhaps a straight pin) that could perhaps begin a split/tear in her skin at the neck? I don't know how active she is, but you might be able to hold her firmly against some solid padded surface like a table. Hope that something works for you both.

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: elizabethfreer@aol.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding ...

And Aloha Sherron ~

Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin might be loose enough to start a split.

Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle up against to assist in the shed.

I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently!

Keep us posted!

Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos roamed freely ;-]

Elizabeth

Aloha, Elizabeth

She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko hatchlings are even tinier.

This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't keeping the humidity up high enough.

She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her movement.

Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.

She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is green underneath, not gray!

We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to them first. :(

Mahalo, Sherron

ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
Hello Sherron ~

Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.

What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new pet here?

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having trouble shedding "egg skin"
Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a problem with her right leg, but is spunky.

We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has managed to catch any yet.

But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.

Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another matter. :(

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky little girl.

Mahalo, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l                       l                        l
  ^^ /..\              ^^ /..\ ^^           ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^              llll                      \\\
       l l                    llll                      ///
       l l                    llll                      \\\
       l l ~~              llll                      ///
  ~~ (                ~~    )   ~~         ~~   (    ~~
           )                   (                            )
        (                        )                       (
           )                   (                            )
     lappert(a)               robert(a)                    hubert(a)
      17.50 yo                    r.i.p.                            r.i.p.

                       (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
--------------090702000005010105040309-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 03:20:43 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 16:20:43 -1000 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> Aloha, Melody Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;) We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away. Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving target! And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on the gaping. I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning. Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured out already and knows what buttons to push? ;) Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;) Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries! Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;) Thanks, Sherron Melody Hartley wrote: > Hi Sharron, > > I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com. > They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and > Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of > someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also > getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's > pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I > think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your > gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you > don't need the kind with D3 in it. > > Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in > Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers > for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended > them and maybe that will make a difference ;-) > > You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting > tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet! > Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if > you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling > on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second > person holding the gecko. > > Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and > Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now > and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D > > My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't > ship them to Oregon though, LOL! > > Best of luck! > Melody > > Gecko wrote: >> Aloha, Melody >> >> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to >> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to >> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the >> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship >> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good >> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the >> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 >> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu >> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would >> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is >> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little >> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! >> >> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always >> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss >> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! >> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! >> Much easier! ;) >> >> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. >> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to >> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her >> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always >> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!! >> >> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved >> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real >> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, >> but I sure like the name! ;) >> >> Mahalo, >> Sherron >> >> Melody Hartley wrote: >> >>> Aloha Sharron, >>> >>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to >>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch >>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can >>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that >>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos >>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one >>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the >>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give >>> you more info if you're interested. >>> >>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any >>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go >>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! >>> >>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on >>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front >>> to back, like turning a cone inside out. >>> >>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although >>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" >>> -- ah-LO-ah. >>> >>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) >>> >>> Melody >>> >>> Gecko wrote: >>> >>>> Aloha, Melody >>>> >>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that >>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) >>>> >>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper >>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better. >>>> >>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf >>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on >>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we >>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out >>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the >>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and >>>> house. ;) >>>> >>>> Mahalo, >>>> Sherron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Melody Hartley wrote: >>>> >>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full >>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be >>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >>>>> >>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung >>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin >>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle >>>>>> up against to assist in the shed. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>>>>> >>>>>> Keep us posted! >>>>>> >>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>>>>> roamed freely ;-] >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest >>>>>> day gecko >>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften >>>>>> enough to >>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >>>>>> neck >>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right >>>>>> leg, and >>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>>> clumped >>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together >>>>>> as a >>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. >>>>>> Although >>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just >>>>>> be the >>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>>>> >>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it >>>>>> has only >>>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>>>> her >>>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >>>>>> lead, and >>>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>>> >>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, >>>>>> though, >>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching >>>>>> her body >>>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>>> encased in >>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>>>> >>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as >>>>>> they run >>>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>>> house - >>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). >>>>>> But we >>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>>>> for >>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>>>> have a >>>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>>>> them first. :( >>>>>> >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >>>>>>> home >>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >>>>>>> know how >>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a >>>>>>> new pet >>>>>>> here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the >>>>>>> rest of >>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from >>>>>>> being very >>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm >>>>>>> her up. >>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>>> has a >>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff >>>>>>> around >>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>>> little girl. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Gecko >>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >>>>>> having trouble shedding ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>>> >>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough >>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting >>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the >>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some >>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her >>>>>> movement. >>>>>> >>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use >>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>>> >>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. >>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray! >>>>>> >>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus >>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she >>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings >>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots >>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if >>>>>> we don't get to them first. :( >>>>>> >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" >>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a >>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water >>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours >>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her >>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new >>>>>>> pet here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest >>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs >>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest >>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>>> little girl. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> l l >>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ >>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^ >>>>>>> l l ^^ llll >>>>>>> \\\ l l llll /// >>>>>>> l l llll \\\ >>>>>>> l l ~~ llll /// >>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>>> ( ) ( >>>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>>> lappert(a) robert(a) >>>>>>> hubert(a) >>>>>>> 17.50 yo >>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p. >>>>>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ************** >>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>>>>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of >>>>>> Hawaii) >>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - >>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Global Gecko Association >>>>> http://www.gekkota.com >>>>> Classifieds >>>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>>>> gecko mailing list >>>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Global Gecko Association >>> http://www.gekkota.com >>> Classifieds >>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>> gecko mailing list >>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 04:03:10 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Tracy Vicente) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 23:03:10 -0400 Subject: [gecko] mealworm shortage and guilt with injection as euthanasia In-Reply-To: <484C7966.6050403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000401c8c9dd$5a17e550$0201a8c0@HP540n> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_7q05KbUq5LCQWTthJxpslQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey and i cant get any. oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt with my gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a favor, but it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and hours of tears for that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we see the animal obviously suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in this predicament, and now with the laws against you, I wish you the best. Tracy --Boundary_(ID_7q05KbUq5LCQWTthJxpslQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message
it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey and i cant get any.

oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt with my gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a favor, but it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and hours of tears for that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we see the animal obviously suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in this predicament, and now with the laws against you, I wish you the best.

Tracy

--Boundary_(ID_7q05KbUq5LCQWTthJxpslQ)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 05:01:02 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 00:01:02 EDT Subject: [gecko] mealworm shortage and guilt with injection as euthanasia Message-ID: --part1_d16.2c539fbf.357e04fe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tracy ~ You're so right! We do what we feel is OK when we see animals suffering. Sometimes the laws are against us. Our intent is to end the animal's suffering quickly. Ya know, when we get a shot the needle hurts just briefly. Do you think the pain of the injection might be more for a gecko? On a far lighter note, what does it take to breed mealworms? I have heard you need a medium such as oat bran and the correct temps and the mealworms will just breed. Have you ever bred any? Perhaps we could separate these threads? Elizabeth > Subj:RE: [gecko] mealworm shortage and guilt with injection as euthanasia > Date:6/8/08 8:04:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: trace@gexfiles.com (Tracy Vicente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey and i > cant get any. > oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt with my > gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a favor, but it > hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and hours of tears for that > guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we see the animal obviously > suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in this predicament, and now with the laws > against you, I wish you the best. > > Tracy >

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_d16.2c539fbf.357e04fe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy ~

You're so right! We do what we feel is OK when we see animals suff= ering. Sometimes the laws are against us. Our intent is to end t= he animal's suffering quickly.

Ya know, when we get a shot the needle hurts just briefly. Do you=20= think the pain of the injection might be more for a gecko?

On a far lighter note, what does it take to breed mealworms? I hav= e heard you need a medium such as oat bran and the correct temps and the mea= lworms will just breed. Have you ever bred any? Perhaps we could= separate these threads?

Elizabeth

Subj:RE: [gecko] mealwor= m shortage and guilt with injection as euthanasia
Date:6/8/08 8:04:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    trace@gexfiles.com (Tracy Vicente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey=20= and i cant get any.
oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt wi= th my gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a favor, b= ut it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and hours of tears fo= r that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we see the animal obviousl= y suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in this predicament, and now wi= th the laws against you, I wish you the best.
=20
Tracy

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_d16.2c539fbf.357e04fe_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 05:37:59 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 00:37:59 EDT Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! Message-ID: --part1_caa.2d8f60cc.357e0da7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, Sherron, Dennis, & Li'i ~ In my experience Day Geckos (if one can group them all) seem more susceptible to stress than my other geckos. The gaping signals that Li'i is not having fun, now that she has energy to tell you so. In this case I don't think it's a breathing thing. It's a threat display...so you'd better get away (if you were not trying to help)...ha, ha, ha. What about a smooth padded surface to place Li'i on, maybe like a potholder against a table? Press her against the surface gently while Dennis works on her tail. Never had to work on a gecko as small as Li'i for extended stuff like her tail. Do you know that Lepidodactylus lugubris are parthenogenetic? They don't need males to reproduce. The babies are basically clones of the moms. I have seen them arch their backs like cats and have a go at each other kinda sideways. Although I hold mine from time to time, and occasionally assist with an initial shed just gently, there's not much to hold. I really have not purposely kept them on the loose. However, with a large captive population (they are like the Energizer Bunny...they keep going and going and going) occasionally some get loose. A couple weeks ago I was running the water for my bath and all of a sudden one Ll appeared on the top of the faucet. The bad news times are when I see one of the moms upsidedown on the screen lid with a hatchling in her mouth. Now that's a one way street if I don't catch the situation in time. My favorite geckos for holding (and I do like to hold my geckos) are Oedura castelnaui (northern velvet geckos) indigeous to Australia and my tailless Rhacodactylus ciliatus (crested gecko) from Melody. The Ocs are nearly 7" long from snout to tail tip at maturity. And George (the crested) weighs about 50 grams without his tail...a good handful. I wish you could keep these geckos in Hawaii. I think you might really like them. I'm sorry that Sunshine Mealworms could not take you on right now. You should be at the top of their list. Have you ever bred mealworms? I think it is not that hard. Hopefully Tracy has started a new thread about that. Mahalo, Elizabeth > Subj:Re: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! > Date:6/8/08 7:22:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Aloha, Melody > > Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will > see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;) > > We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many > problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a > little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all > those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her > down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is > really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- > she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away. > > Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I > try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving target! > > And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps > opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so > I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we > could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we > aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried > so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it > moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on > the gaping. > > I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional > distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt > her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? > Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat > at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning. > > Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured > out already and knows what buttons to push? ;) > > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived > about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was > North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was > a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always > loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;) > > Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries! > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My > best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to > where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the > way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;) > > Thanks, > Sherron > > Melody Hartley wrote: > > Hi Sharron, > > > > I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com. > > They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and > > Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of > > someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also > > getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's > > pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I > > think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your > > gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you > > don't need the kind with D3 in it. > > > > Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in > > Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers > > for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended > > them and maybe that will make a difference ;-) > > > > You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting > > tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet! > > Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if > > you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling > > on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second > > person holding the gecko. > > > > Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and > > Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now > > and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D > > > > My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't > > ship them to Oregon though, LOL! > > > > Best of luck! > > Melody > > > > Gecko wrote: > >> Aloha, Melody > >> > >> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to > >> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to > >> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the > >> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship > >> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good > >> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the > >> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 > >> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu > >> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would > >> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is > >> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little > >> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! > >> > >> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always > >> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss > >> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! > >> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! > >> Much easier! ;) > >> > >> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. > >> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to > >> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her > >> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always > >> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!! > >> > >> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved > >> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real > >> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, > >> but I sure like the name! ;) > >> > >> Mahalo, > >> Sherron > >> > >> Melody Hartley wrote: > >> > >>> Aloha Sharron, > >>> > >>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to > >>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch > >>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can > >>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that > >>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos > >>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one > >>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the > >>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give > >>> you more info if you're interested. > >>> > >>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any > >>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go > >>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! > >>> > >>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on > >>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front > >>> to back, like turning a cone inside out. > >>> > >>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although > >>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" > >>> -- ah-LO-ah. > >>> > >>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) > >>> > >>> Melody > >>> > >>> Gecko wrote: > >>> > >>>> Aloha, Melody > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that > >>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) > >>>> > >>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper > >>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better. > >>>> > >>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf > >>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on > >>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we > >>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out > >>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the > >>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and > >>>> house. ;) > >>>> > >>>> Mahalo, > >>>> Sherron > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Melody Hartley wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a > >>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full > >>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be > >>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. > >>>>> > >>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a > >>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung > >>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the > >>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin > >>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a > >>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle > >>>>>> up against to assist in the shed. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Keep us posted! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos > >>>>>> roamed freely ;-] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Elizabeth > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth > >>>>>> > >>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest > >>>>>> day gecko > >>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko > >>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften > >>>>>> enough to > >>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the > >>>>>> neck > >>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a > >>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't > >>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. > >>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right > >>>>>> leg, and > >>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>>>>> clumped > >>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together > >>>>>> as a > >>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. > >>>>>> Although > >>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just > >>>>>> be the > >>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > >>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it > >>>>>> has only > >>>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > >>>>>> her > >>>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>> lead, and > >>>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, > >>>>>> though, > >>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > >>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching > >>>>>> her body > >>>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>> encased in > >>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is > >>>>>> green underneath, not gray! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as > >>>>>> they run > >>>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>> house - > >>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). > >>>>>> But we > >>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they > >>>>>> have a > >>>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running > >>>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to > >>>>>> them first. :( > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at > >>>>>>> home > >>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't > >>>>>>> know how > >>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at > >>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container > >>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost > >>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the > >>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a > >>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a > >>>>>>> new pet > >>>>>>> here? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Elizabeth > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > >>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" > >>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time > >>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) > >>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little > >>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have > >>>>>>> when > >>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a > >>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the > >>>>>>> rest of > >>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from > >>>>>>> being very > >>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & > >>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in > >>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has > >>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > >>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm > >>>>>>> her up. > >>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > >>>>>>> has a > >>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we > >>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except > >>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff > >>>>>>> around > >>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another > >>>>>>> matter. :( > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky > >>>>>>> little girl. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Gecko > >>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko > >>>>>> having trouble shedding ... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth > >>>>>> > >>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day > >>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning > >>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough > >>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the > >>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting > >>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't > >>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. > >>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, > >>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg > >>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the > >>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some > >>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her > >>>>>> movement. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > >>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has > >>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use > >>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > >>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > >>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her > >>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. > >>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they > >>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus > >>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she > >>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings > >>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots > >>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if > >>>>>> we don't get to them first. :( > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at > >>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't > >>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" > >>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic > >>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a > >>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water > >>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours > >>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her > >>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new > >>>>>>> pet here? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Elizabeth > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having > >>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" > >>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time > >>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) > >>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little > >>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when > >>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a > >>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest > >>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being > >>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs > >>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest > >>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has > >>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > >>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her > >>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > >>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't > >>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except > >>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around > >>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another > >>>>>>> matter. :( > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky > >>>>>>> little girl. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?& NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --part1_caa.2d8f60cc.357e0da7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aloha, Sherron, De= nnis, & Li'i ~

In my experience Day Geckos (if one can group them all) seem more suscep= tible to stress than my other geckos.

The gaping signals that Li'i is not having fun, now that she has=20= energy to tell you so. In this case I don't think it's a breathing thi= ng. It's a threat display...so you'd better get away (if you were not=20= trying to help)...ha, ha, ha.

What about a smooth padded surface to place Li'i on, maybe like a pot= holder against a table? Press her against the surface gently while Den= nis works on her tail. Never had to work on a gecko as small as Li= 'i for extended stuff like her tail.

Do you know that Lepidodactylus lugubris are parthenogenetic? They= don't need males to reproduce. The babies are basically clones of the= moms. I have seen them arch their backs like cats and have a go at ea= ch other kinda sideways. Although I hold mine from time to time, and o= ccasionally assist with an initial shed just gently, there's not much to hol= d. I really have not purposely kept them on the loose. However,=20= with a large captive population (they are like the Energizer Bunny...they ke= ep going and going and going) occasionally some get loose. A couple we= eks ago I was running the water for my bath and all of a sudden one Ll appea= red on the top of the faucet. The bad news times are when I see one of= the moms upsidedown on the screen lid with a hatchling in her mouth. = Now that's a one way street if I don't catch the situation in time.

My favorite geckos for holding (and I do like to hold my geckos) are Oed= ura castelnaui (northern velvet geckos) indigeous to Australia and my taille= ss Rhacodactylus ciliatus (crested gecko) from Melody. The Ocs are nea= rly 7" long from snout to tail tip at maturity. And George (the creste= d) weighs about 50 grams without his tail...a good handful. I wish you= could keep these geckos in Hawaii. I think you might really like them= .

I'm sorry that Sunshine Mealworms could not take you on right now. = ;You should be at the top of their list. Have you ever b= red mealworms? I think it is not that hard. Hopefully Tracy has=20= started a new thread about that.

Mahalo,
Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Li'i isn= 't cooperating!
Date:6/8/08 7:22:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Melody

Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will=20
see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated!=20= ;)

We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many=20
problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a=20
little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all=20
those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her=20
down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is=20
really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second=20= --=20
she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away.

Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I=20
try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving targe= t!

And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps=20
opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so=20
I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we=20
could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we=20
aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried=20
so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it= =20
moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on=20
the gaping.=20

I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional=20
distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt= =20
her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress?=20
Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't=20
noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and= eat=20
at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning.

Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured=20
out already and knows what buttons to push? ;)

Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived=20
about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was=20
North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was= =20
a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always=20
loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders,=20
timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything= =20
I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;)

Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries!=20
Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My=20
best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to=20
where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the= =20
way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)

Thanks,
Sherron

Melody Hartley wrote:
> Hi Sharron,
>
> I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.
> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin a= nd
> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know o= f
> someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd sug= gest also
> getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own.=20= It's
> pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that.=20= I
> think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. I= f your
> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window)=20= you
> don't need the kind with D3 in it.
>
> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're=20= in
> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm cu= stomers
> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommend= ed
> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-)
>
> You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getti= ng
> tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet= !
> Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin= : See if
> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pul= ling
> on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a s= econd
> person holding the gecko.
>
> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and
> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs togethe= r here now
> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D
>
> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure=20= you can't
> ship them to Oregon though, LOL!
>
> Best of luck!
> Melody
>
> Gecko wrote:
>> Aloha, Melody
>>
>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will=20= have to=20
>> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I=20= have to=20
>> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed=20= the=20
>> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to sh= ip=20
>> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a=20= good=20
>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all t= he=20
>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license=20= is $50=20
>> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honol= ulu=20
>> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they= would=20
>> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly th= at is=20
>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our li= ttle=20
>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat,= though!
>>
>> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can=20= always=20
>> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a S= wiss=20
>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank= goodness!=20
>> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip the= m!=20
>> Much easier! ;)
>>
>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on=20= her.=20
>> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread tryin= g to=20
>> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on=20= her=20
>> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always=20
>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!!
>>
>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We= moved=20
>> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not=20= real=20
>> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Or= egon,=20
>> but I sure like the name! ;)
>>
>> Mahalo,
>> Sherron
>>
>> Melody Hartley wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha Sharron,
>>>
>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is= so lucky to=20
>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunc= h=20
>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you kno= w you can=20
>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. &nbs= p;I do that=20
>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchli= ng geckos=20
>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone= , or get one=20
>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate=20= from the=20
>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. = ;I can give=20
>>> you more info if you're interested.
>>>
>>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails?= Or any=20
>>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd ha= te for you go=20
>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL!
>>>
>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra s= kin on=20
>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by=20= peeling front=20
>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out.
>>>
>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although= =20
>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a s= oft "h"=20
>>> -- ah-LO-ah.
>>>
>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-)
>>>
>>> Melody
>>>
>>> Gecko wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aloha, Melody
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush= , but that=20
>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better.=20= ;)
>>>>
>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay=20= a paper=20
>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.
>>>>
>>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on ba= nana leaf=20
>>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to hav= e her on=20
>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana l= eaf and we=20
>>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for h= anging out=20
>>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that a= nd the=20
>>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our=20= lanai and=20
>>>> house. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Mahalo,
>>>> Sherron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel ra= ther than a=20
>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box= in a sink full=20
>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft pain= tbrush can also be=20
>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loo= se.
>>>>>
>>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the=20= humidity chamber near a=20
>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth= that has been wrung=20
>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic contain= er. Watch the=20
>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hou= rs I imagine her skin=20
>>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig,= small branch, or a=20
>>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that=20= she could snuggle=20
>>>>>> up against to assist in the shed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work m= ore efficiently!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep us posted!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm eno= ugh where geckos=20
>>>>>> roamed freely ;-]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Aloha, Elizabeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     She is about 3/4" from=20= nose to vent -- she is the smallest=20
>>>>>> day gecko
>>>>>>     hatchling we have ever=20= seen, although some of our mourning gecko
>>>>>>     hatchlings are even tin= ier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     This sounds like it mig= ht work! If it would just soften=20
>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>     pull off her or get a s= plit started, I think we could get the=20
>>>>>> neck
>>>>>>     skin off. We have= been misting her little cage and putting a
>>>>>>     heating pad next to it,= but that only helps a little and wasn't
>>>>>>     keeping the humidity up= high enough.
>>>>>>     She has never seemed to= be able to fully control her right=20
>>>>>> leg, and
>>>>>>     her right foot is small= er than her left and the toes kind of=20
>>>>>> clumped
>>>>>>     together. She often ten= ds to move the joint and leg together=20
>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>     unit, so there may be s= omething wrong with the joint, too.=20
>>>>>> Although
>>>>>>     in watching her with th= e skin problem, some of that may just=20
>>>>>> be the
>>>>>>     skin being so tight it=20= restricts her movement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Usually when we find th= e hatchlings, most of that first skin has
>>>>>>     already been shed, but=20= she was fully covered with it and it=20
>>>>>> has only
>>>>>>     recently started splitt= ing. We do think it hinders her use of=20
>>>>>> her
>>>>>>     limbs -- her arms are o= nly about the size of thin pencil=20
>>>>>> lead, and
>>>>>>     the skin seems to fully= coat those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     She has been doing okay= up until the last couple of days,=20
>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>     when the skin (I hope t= hat it isn't something else, too) started
>>>>>>     really becoming a probl= em. She now gets around by lurching=20
>>>>>> her body
>>>>>>     back and forth because=20= her little arms & legs are still=20
>>>>>> encased in
>>>>>>     the skin, although it h= as come off some of the back. And she is
>>>>>>     green underneath, not g= ray!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     We haven't ever actuall= y kept any of the geckos before, as=20
>>>>>> they run
>>>>>>     all around our house, l= anai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,=20
>>>>>> house -
>>>>>>     Hemidactylus frenatus,=20= & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris).=20
>>>>>> But we
>>>>>>     had to make an exceptio= n in her case, since she couldn't fend=20
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>     herself. Usually we jus= t take the hatchlings outside so they=20
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>     better chance of surviv= al -- we have lots of big geckos running
>>>>>>     around inside and they=20= don't last long if we don't get to=20
>>>>>> them first. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ElizabethFreer@aol.com=20= wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Hello Sherron ~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Try the humidity ch= amber trick. I can't view your photos at=20
>>>>>>> home
>>>>>>>     because my laptop i= s really memory-challenged, so I don't=20
>>>>>>> know how
>>>>>>>     big this gecko is!=20= However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at
>>>>>>>     hatching. Try= placing your gecko in a vented plastic container
>>>>>>>     with a damp washclo= th inside. Place this near a light. Almost
>>>>>>>     immediately you wil= l notice beads of water accumulate on the
>>>>>>>     sides/top of the co= ntainer. After a few hours or so perhaps=20
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>     can remove the ring= s of old skin around her neck gently with a
>>>>>>>     tweezers or small s= cissors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     What is the problem= with her right leg? Might you have a=20
>>>>>>> new pet
>>>>>>>     here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Subj:[gecko]Que= stion on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
>>>>>>>>     trouble sheddin= g "egg skin"
>>>>>>>>     Date:6/1/08 4:1= 6:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>>>>>>>     From: &nb= sp; gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
>>>>>>>>     Sender: &= nbsp; gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>     Reply-to: gecko= @lists.gekkota.com=20
>>>>>>>> <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
>>>>>>>>     To:   = ; gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     We found a tiny hat= chling on May 13 that was a little
>>>>>>>     underdeveloped and=20= was still in that grayish skin they have=20
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>     they first come out= of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a
>>>>>>>     problem with her ri= ght leg, but is spunky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     We haven't been abl= e to release her outside like we do the=20
>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>     the hatchings we fi= nd, as her bad leg has kept her from=20
>>>>>>> being very
>>>>>>>     mobile, but she has= been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs &
>>>>>>>     aphids I collect fo= r her. She has also shown a real interest in
>>>>>>>     the fruit flies aro= und her papaya, but I don't think she has
>>>>>>>     managed to catch an= y yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     But she started hav= ing trouble yesterday and was real cold &
>>>>>>>     clammy, so we put a= heating pad near her cage to help warm=20
>>>>>>> her up.
>>>>>>>     It seems to have st= arted her molting her "egg skin", but she=20
>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>>     bunch of it around=20= her neck that she can't get off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Is there anything w= e can do to help her? She is so tiny we=20
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>     see how we could tr= y to cut it off! The rest of the skin except
>>>>>>>     for around her neck= should slough off okay, but the stuff=20
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>     her neck is several= layers and is a ring, so it may be another
>>>>>>>     matter. :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Any help would be g= reatly appreciated as she is really a spunky
>>>>>>>     little girl.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Mahalo, Sherron=20
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold=20= Dust Day Gecko=20
>>>>>> having trouble shedding ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is t= he smallest day=20
>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although som= e of our mourning=20
>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it wou= ld just soften enough=20
>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think= we could get the=20
>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her l= ittle cage and putting=20
>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a= little and wasn't=20
>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully contro= l her right leg,=20
>>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and= the toes kind of=20
>>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the j= oint and leg=20
>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something w= rong with the=20
>>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the s= kin problem, some=20
>>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it=20= restricts her=20
>>>>>> movement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of th= at first skin has=20
>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered wi= th it and it has=20
>>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it= hinders her use=20
>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the siz= e of thin pencil=20
>>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last coupl= e of days, though,=20
>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something e= lse, too) started=20
>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around=20= by lurching her=20
>>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms &am= p; legs are still=20
>>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off s= ome of the back.
>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos= before, as they=20
>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phe= lsuma laticauda,=20
>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning -= Lepidodactylus=20
>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in h= er case, since she=20
>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take= the hatchlings=20
>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of surviva= l -- we have lots=20
>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they do= n't last long if=20
>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can= 't view your photos at=20
>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-cha= llenged, so I don't=20
>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However,=20= my mourning geckos are 1"=20
>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your ge= cko in a vented plastic=20
>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. &nb= sp;Place this near a=20
>>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will no= tice beads of water=20
>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the containe= r. After a few hours=20
>>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of o= ld skin around her=20
>>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scisso= rs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? &nb= sp;Might you have a new=20
>>>>>>> pet here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold=20= Dust Day Gecko having=20
>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight= Time
>>>>>>>> From:    gecko.hale@gmai= l.com (Sherron)
>>>>>>>> Sender:    gecko-admin@l= ists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com <m= ailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
>>>>>>>> To:    gecko@lists.gekko= ta.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that wa= s a little=20
>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayis= h skin they have when=20
>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was d= ehydrated and has a=20
>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside= like we do the rest=20
>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg ha= s kept her from being=20
>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty=20= well eating tiny bugs=20
>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has als= o shown a real interest=20
>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I= don't think she has=20
>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday an= d was real cold &=20
>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her ca= ge to help warm her=20
>>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting he= r "egg skin", but she=20
>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she=20= can't get off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? Sh= e is so tiny we don't=20
>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The res= t of the skin except=20
>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay,= but the stuff around=20
>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, s= o it may be another=20
>>>>>>> matter. :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as sh= e is really a spunky=20
>>>>>>> little girl.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_caa.2d8f60cc.357e0da7_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 06:34:10 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 01:34:10 EDT Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! Message-ID: --part1_d2d.2d6c76b3.357e1ad2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Subj:Re: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! > Date:6/8/08 9:37:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From:Elizabeth Freer > To:gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > > Aloha, Sherron, Dennis, & Li'i ~ > > In my experience Day Geckos (if one can group them all) seem more > susceptible to stress than my other geckos. > > The gaping signals that Li'i is not having fun, now that she has energy to > tell you so. In this case I don't think it's a breathing thing. It's a > threat display...so you'd better get away (if you were not trying to help)...ha, > ha, ha. > > What about a smooth padded surface to place Li'i on, maybe like a potholder > against a table? Press her against the surface gently while Dennis works on > her tail. Never had to work on a gecko as small as Li'i for extended stuff > like her tail. > > Do you know that Lepidodactylus lugubris are parthenogenetic? They don't > need males to reproduce. The babies are basically clones of the moms. I have > seen them arch their backs like cats and have a go at each other kinda > sideways. Although I hold mine from time to time, and occasionally assist with an > initial shed just gently, there's not much to hold. I really have not > purposely kept them on the loose. However, with a large captive population (they > are like the Energizer Bunny...they keep going and going and going) > occasionally some get loose. A couple weeks ago I was running the water for my bath > and all of a sudden one Ll appeared on the top of the faucet. The bad news > times are when I see one of the moms upsidedown on the screen lid with a > hatchling in her mouth. Now that's a one way street if I don't catch the situation > in time. > > My favorite geckos for holding (and I do like to hold my geckos) are Oedura > castelnaui (northern velvet geckos) indigeous to Australia and my tailless > Rhacodactylus ciliatus (crested gecko) from Melody. The Ocs are nearly 7" long > from snout to tail tip at maturity. And George (the crested) weighs about > 50 grams without his tail...a good handful. I wish you could keep these > geckos in Hawaii. I think you might really like them. > > I'm sorry that Sunshine Mealworms could not take you on right now. You > should be at the top of their list. Have you ever bred mealworms? I think it is > not that hard. Hopefully Tracy has started a new thread about that. Sorry I made a mistake. Thought that you had purchased a glass Exo-Terra 12"x 18" tank. > > Mahalo, > Elizabeth > > > > >> Subj:Re: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! >> Date:6/8/08 7:22:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> Aloha, Melody >> >> Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will >> see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;) >> >> We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many >> problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a >> little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all >> those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her >> down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is >> really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- >> she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away. >> >> Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I >> try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving target! >> >> And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps >> opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so >> I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we >> could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we >> aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried >> so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it >> moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on >> the gaping. >> >> I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional >> distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt >> her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? >> Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't >> noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat >> at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning. >> >> Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured >> out already and knows what buttons to push? ;) >> >> Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived >> about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was >> North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was >> a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always >> loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, >> timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything >> I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;) >> >> Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries! >> Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My >> best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to >> where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the >> way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;) >> >> Thanks, >> Sherron >> >> Melody Hartley wrote: >> > Hi Sharron, >> > >> > I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com. >> > They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and >> > Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of >> > someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also >> > getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's >> > pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I >> > think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your >> > gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you >> > don't need the kind with D3 in it. >> > >> > Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in >> > Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers >> > for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended >> > them and maybe that will make a difference ;-) >> > >> > You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting >> > tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet! >> > Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if >> > you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling >> > on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second >> > person holding the gecko. >> > >> > Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and >> > Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now >> > and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D >> > >> > My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't >> > ship them to Oregon though, LOL! >> > >> > Best of luck! >> > Melody >> > >> > Gecko wrote: >> >> Aloha, Melody >> >> >> >> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to >> >> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to >> >> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the >> >> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship >> >> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good >> >> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the >> >> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 >> >> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu >> >> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would >> >> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is >> >> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little >> >> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! >> >> >> >> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always >> >> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss >> >> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! >> >> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! >> >> Much easier! ;) >> >> >> >> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. >> >> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to >> >> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her >> >> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always >> >> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!! >> >> >> >> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved >> >> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real >> >> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, >> >> but I sure like the name! ;) >> >> >> >> Mahalo, >> >> Sherron >> >> >> >> Melody Hartley wrote: >> >> >> >>> Aloha Sharron, >> >>> >> >>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to >> >>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch >> >>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can >> >>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that >> >>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos >> >>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one >> >>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the >> >>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give >> >>> you more info if you're interested. >> >>> >> >>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any >> >>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go >> >>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! >> >>> >> >>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on >> >>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front >> >>> to back, like turning a cone inside out. >> >>> >> >>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although >> >>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" >> >>> -- ah-LO-ah. >> >>> >> >>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) >> >>> >> >>> Melody >> >>> >> >>> Gecko wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Aloha, Melody >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that >> >>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) >> >>>> >> >>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper >> >>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better. >> >>>> >> >>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf >> >>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on >> >>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we >> >>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out >> >>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the >> >>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and >> >>>> house. ;) >> >>>> >> >>>> Mahalo, >> >>>> Sherron >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Melody Hartley wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >> >>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full >> >>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be >> >>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >> >>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung >> >>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >> >>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin >> >>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >> >>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle >> >>>>>> up against to assist in the shed. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Keep us posted! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >> >>>>>> roamed freely ;-] >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Elizabeth >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest >> >>>>>> day gecko >> >>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >> >>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften >> >>>>>> enough to >> >>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >> >>>>>> neck >> >>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >> >>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >> >>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >> >>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right >> >>>>>> leg, and >> >>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >> >>>>>> clumped >> >>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together >> >>>>>> as a >> >>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. >> >>>>>> Although >> >>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just >> >>>>>> be the >> >>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >> >>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it >> >>>>>> has only >> >>>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >> >>>>>> her >> >>>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >> >>>>>> lead, and >> >>>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, >> >>>>>> though, >> >>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >> >>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching >> >>>>>> her body >> >>>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >> >>>>>> encased in >> >>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >> >>>>>> green underneath, not gray! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as >> >>>>>> they run >> >>>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >> >>>>>> house - >> >>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). >> >>>>>> But we >> >>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >> >>>>>> have a >> >>>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >> >>>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >> >>>>>> them first. :( >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >> >>>>>>> home >> >>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >> >>>>>>> know how >> >>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >> >>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >> >>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >> >>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >> >>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps >> >>>>>>> you >> >>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >> >>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a >> >>>>>>> new pet >> >>>>>>> here? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >> >>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >> >>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> >>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> >>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >> >>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have >> >>>>>>> when >> >>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >> >>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the >> >>>>>>> rest of >> >>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from >> >>>>>>> being very >> >>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >> >>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >> >>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >> >>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >> >>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm >> >>>>>>> her up. >> >>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >> >>>>>>> has a >> >>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >> >>>>>>> don't >> >>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >> >>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff >> >>>>>>> around >> >>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >> >>>>>>> matter. :( >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> >>>>>>> little girl. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>> From: Gecko >> >>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >> >>>>>> having trouble shedding ... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >> >>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >> >>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough >> >>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >> >>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting >> >>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >> >>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >> >>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >> >>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >> >>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >> >>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the >> >>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some >> >>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her >> >>>>>> movement. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >> >>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >> >>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use >> >>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >> >>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >> >>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >> >>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >> >>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >> >>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. >> >>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >> >>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >> >>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus >> >>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she >> >>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings >> >>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots >> >>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if >> >>>>>> we don't get to them first. :( >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >> >>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >> >>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" >> >>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >> >>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a >> >>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water >> >>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours >> >>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her >> >>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new >> >>>>>>> pet here? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >> >>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >> >>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> >>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >> >>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >> >>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >> >>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >> >>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest >> >>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >> >>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs >> >>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest >> >>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >> >>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >> >>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >> >>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >> >>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >> >>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >> >>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >> >>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >> >>>>>>> matter. :( >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >> >>>>>>> little girl. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >

**************
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Subj:Re: [gecko]Li'i isn= 't cooperating!
Date:6/8/08 9:37:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:Elizabeth Freer
To:gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Sherron, Dennis, & Li'i ~

In my experience Day Geckos (if one can group them all) seem more suscep= tible to stress than my other geckos.

The gaping signals that Li'i is not having fun, now that she has=20= energy to tell you so. In this case I don't think it's a breathing thi= ng. It's a threat display...so you'd better get away (if you were not=20= trying to help)...ha, ha, ha.

What about a smooth padded surface to place Li'i on, maybe like a pot= holder against a table? Press her against the surface gently while Den= nis works on her tail. Never had to work on a gecko as small as Li= 'i for extended stuff like her tail.

Do you know that Lepidodactylus lugubris are parthenogenetic? They= don't need males to reproduce. The babies are basically clones of the= moms. I have seen them arch their backs like cats and have a go at ea= ch other kinda sideways. Although I hold mine from time to time, and o= ccasionally assist with an initial shed just gently, there's not much to hol= d. I really have not purposely kept them on the loose. However,=20= with a large captive population (they are like the Energizer Bunny...they ke= ep going and going and going) occasionally some get loose. A couple we= eks ago I was running the water for my bath and all of a sudden one Ll appea= red on the top of the faucet. The bad news times are when I see one of= the moms upsidedown on the screen lid with a hatchling in her mouth. = Now that's a one way street if I don't catch the situation in time.

My favorite geckos for holding (and I do like to hold my geckos) are Oed= ura castelnaui (northern velvet geckos) indigeous to Australia and my taille= ss Rhacodactylus ciliatus (crested gecko) from Melody. The Ocs are nea= rly 7" long from snout to tail tip at maturity. And George (the creste= d) weighs about 50 grams without his tail...a good handful. I wish you= could keep these geckos in Hawaii. I think you might really like them= .

I'm sorry that Sunshine Mealworms could not take you on right now. = ;You should be at the top of their list. Have you ever b= red mealworms? I think it is not that hard. Hopefully Tracy has=20= started a new thread about that.

Sorry I made a mistake. Thought that you had purchased a gla= ss Exo-Terra 12"x 18" tank.

Mahalo,
Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]Li'i isn= 't cooperating!
Date:6/8/08 7:22:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Aloha, Melody

Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will=20
see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated!=20= ;)

We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many=20
problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a=20
little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all=20
those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her=20
down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is=20
really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second=20= --=20
she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away.

Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I=20
try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving targe= t!

And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps=20
opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so=20
I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we=20
could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we=20
aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried=20
so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it= =20
moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on=20
the gaping.=20

I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional=20
distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt= =20
her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress?=20
Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't=20
noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and= eat=20
at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning.

Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured=20
out already and knows what buttons to push? ;)

Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived=20
about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was=20
North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was= =20
a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always=20
loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders,=20
timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything= =20
I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;)

Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries!=20
Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My=20
best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to=20
where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the= =20
way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)

Thanks,
Sherron

Melody Hartley wrote:
> Hi Sharron,
>
> I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.
> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin a= nd
> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know o= f
> someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd sug= gest also
> getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own.=20= It's
> pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that.=20= I
> think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. I= f your
> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window)=20= you
> don't need the kind with D3 in it.
>
> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're=20= in
> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm cu= stomers
> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommend= ed
> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-)
>
> You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getti= ng
> tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet= !
> Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin= : See if
> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pul= ling
> on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a s= econd
> person holding the gecko.
>
> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and
> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs togethe= r here now
> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D
>
> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure=20= you can't
> ship them to Oregon though, LOL!
>
> Best of luck!
> Melody
>
> Gecko wrote:
>> Aloha, Melody
>>
>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will=20= have to=20
>> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I=20= have to=20
>> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed=20= the=20
>> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to sh= ip=20
>> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a=20= good=20
>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all t= he=20
>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license=20= is $50=20
>> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honol= ulu=20
>> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they= would=20
>> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly th= at is=20
>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our li= ttle=20
>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat,= though!
>>
>> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can=20= always=20
>> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a S= wiss=20
>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank= goodness!=20
>> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip the= m!=20
>> Much easier! ;)
>>
>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on=20= her.=20
>> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread tryin= g to=20
>> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on=20= her=20
>> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always=20
>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!!
>>
>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We= moved=20
>> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not=20= real=20
>> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Or= egon,=20
>> but I sure like the name! ;)
>>
>> Mahalo,
>> Sherron
>>
>> Melody Hartley wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha Sharron,
>>>
>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is= so lucky to=20
>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunc= h=20
>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you kno= w you can=20
>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. &nbs= p;I do that=20
>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchli= ng geckos=20
>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone= , or get one=20
>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate=20= from the=20
>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. = ;I can give=20
>>> you more info if you're interested.
>>>
>>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails?= Or any=20
>>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd ha= te for you go=20
>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL!
>>>
>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra s= kin on=20
>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by=20= peeling front=20
>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out.
>>>
>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although= =20
>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a s= oft "h"=20
>>> -- ah-LO-ah.
>>>
>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-)
>>>
>>> Melody
>>>
>>> Gecko wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aloha, Melody
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush= , but that=20
>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better.=20= ;)
>>>>
>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay=20= a paper=20
>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.
>>>>
>>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on ba= nana leaf=20
>>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to hav= e her on=20
>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana l= eaf and we=20
>>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for h= anging out=20
>>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that a= nd the=20
>>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our=20= lanai and=20
>>>> house. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Mahalo,
>>>> Sherron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel ra= ther than a=20
>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box= in a sink full=20
>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft pain= tbrush can also be=20
>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loo= se.
>>>>>
>>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the=20= humidity chamber near a=20
>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth= that has been wrung=20
>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic contain= er. Watch the=20
>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hou= rs I imagine her skin=20
>>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig,= small branch, or a=20
>>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that=20= she could snuggle=20
>>>>>> up against to assist in the shed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work m= ore efficiently!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep us posted!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm eno= ugh where geckos=20
>>>>>> roamed freely ;-]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Aloha, Elizabeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     She is about 3/4" from=20= nose to vent -- she is the smallest=20
>>>>>> day gecko
>>>>>>     hatchling we have ever=20= seen, although some of our mourning gecko
>>>>>>     hatchlings are even tin= ier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     This sounds like it mig= ht work! If it would just soften=20
>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>>     pull off her or get a s= plit started, I think we could get the=20
>>>>>> neck
>>>>>>     skin off. We have= been misting her little cage and putting a
>>>>>>     heating pad next to it,= but that only helps a little and wasn't
>>>>>>     keeping the humidity up= high enough.
>>>>>>     She has never seemed to= be able to fully control her right=20
>>>>>> leg, and
>>>>>>     her right foot is small= er than her left and the toes kind of=20
>>>>>> clumped
>>>>>>     together. She often ten= ds to move the joint and leg together=20
>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>     unit, so there may be s= omething wrong with the joint, too.=20
>>>>>> Although
>>>>>>     in watching her with th= e skin problem, some of that may just=20
>>>>>> be the
>>>>>>     skin being so tight it=20= restricts her movement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Usually when we find th= e hatchlings, most of that first skin has
>>>>>>     already been shed, but=20= she was fully covered with it and it=20
>>>>>> has only
>>>>>>     recently started splitt= ing. We do think it hinders her use of=20
>>>>>> her
>>>>>>     limbs -- her arms are o= nly about the size of thin pencil=20
>>>>>> lead, and
>>>>>>     the skin seems to fully= coat those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     She has been doing okay= up until the last couple of days,=20
>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>     when the skin (I hope t= hat it isn't something else, too) started
>>>>>>     really becoming a probl= em. She now gets around by lurching=20
>>>>>> her body
>>>>>>     back and forth because=20= her little arms & legs are still=20
>>>>>> encased in
>>>>>>     the skin, although it h= as come off some of the back. And she is
>>>>>>     green underneath, not g= ray!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     We haven't ever actuall= y kept any of the geckos before, as=20
>>>>>> they run
>>>>>>     all around our house, l= anai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,=20
>>>>>> house -
>>>>>>     Hemidactylus frenatus,=20= & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris).=20
>>>>>> But we
>>>>>>     had to make an exceptio= n in her case, since she couldn't fend=20
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>     herself. Usually we jus= t take the hatchlings outside so they=20
>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>     better chance of surviv= al -- we have lots of big geckos running
>>>>>>     around inside and they=20= don't last long if we don't get to=20
>>>>>> them first. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ElizabethFreer@aol.com=20= wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Hello Sherron ~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Try the humidity ch= amber trick. I can't view your photos at=20
>>>>>>> home
>>>>>>>     because my laptop i= s really memory-challenged, so I don't=20
>>>>>>> know how
>>>>>>>     big this gecko is!=20= However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at
>>>>>>>     hatching. Try= placing your gecko in a vented plastic container
>>>>>>>     with a damp washclo= th inside. Place this near a light. Almost
>>>>>>>     immediately you wil= l notice beads of water accumulate on the
>>>>>>>     sides/top of the co= ntainer. After a few hours or so perhaps=20
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>     can remove the ring= s of old skin around her neck gently with a
>>>>>>>     tweezers or small s= cissors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     What is the problem= with her right leg? Might you have a=20
>>>>>>> new pet
>>>>>>>     here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Subj:[gecko]Que= stion on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
>>>>>>>>     trouble sheddin= g "egg skin"
>>>>>>>>     Date:6/1/08 4:1= 6:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>>>>>>>     From: &nb= sp; gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
>>>>>>>>     Sender: &= nbsp; gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>     Reply-to: gecko= @lists.gekkota.com=20
>>>>>>>> <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
>>>>>>>>     To:   = ; gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     We found a tiny hat= chling on May 13 that was a little
>>>>>>>     underdeveloped and=20= was still in that grayish skin they have=20
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>     they first come out= of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a
>>>>>>>     problem with her ri= ght leg, but is spunky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     We haven't been abl= e to release her outside like we do the=20
>>>>>>> rest of
>>>>>>>     the hatchings we fi= nd, as her bad leg has kept her from=20
>>>>>>> being very
>>>>>>>     mobile, but she has= been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs &
>>>>>>>     aphids I collect fo= r her. She has also shown a real interest in
>>>>>>>     the fruit flies aro= und her papaya, but I don't think she has
>>>>>>>     managed to catch an= y yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     But she started hav= ing trouble yesterday and was real cold &
>>>>>>>     clammy, so we put a= heating pad near her cage to help warm=20
>>>>>>> her up.
>>>>>>>     It seems to have st= arted her molting her "egg skin", but she=20
>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>>     bunch of it around=20= her neck that she can't get off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Is there anything w= e can do to help her? She is so tiny we=20
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>     see how we could tr= y to cut it off! The rest of the skin except
>>>>>>>     for around her neck= should slough off okay, but the stuff=20
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>     her neck is several= layers and is a ring, so it may be another
>>>>>>>     matter. :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Any help would be g= reatly appreciated as she is really a spunky
>>>>>>>     little girl.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Mahalo, Sherron=20
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold=20= Dust Day Gecko=20
>>>>>> having trouble shedding ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is t= he smallest day=20
>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although som= e of our mourning=20
>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it wou= ld just soften enough=20
>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think= we could get the=20
>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her l= ittle cage and putting=20
>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a= little and wasn't=20
>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully contro= l her right leg,=20
>>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and= the toes kind of=20
>>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the j= oint and leg=20
>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something w= rong with the=20
>>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the s= kin problem, some=20
>>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it=20= restricts her=20
>>>>>> movement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of th= at first skin has=20
>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered wi= th it and it has=20
>>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it= hinders her use=20
>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the siz= e of thin pencil=20
>>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last coupl= e of days, though,=20
>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something e= lse, too) started=20
>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around=20= by lurching her=20
>>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms &am= p; legs are still=20
>>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off s= ome of the back.
>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos= before, as they=20
>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phe= lsuma laticauda,=20
>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning -= Lepidodactylus=20
>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in h= er case, since she=20
>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take= the hatchlings=20
>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of surviva= l -- we have lots=20
>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they do= n't last long if=20
>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can= 't view your photos at=20
>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-cha= llenged, so I don't=20
>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However,=20= my mourning geckos are 1"=20
>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your ge= cko in a vented plastic=20
>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. &nb= sp;Place this near a=20
>>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will no= tice beads of water=20
>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the containe= r. After a few hours=20
>>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of o= ld skin around her=20
>>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scisso= rs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? &nb= sp;Might you have a new=20
>>>>>>> pet here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold=20= Dust Day Gecko having=20
>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight= Time
>>>>>>>> From:    gecko.hale@gmai= l.com (Sherron)
>>>>>>>> Sender:    gecko-admin@l= ists.gekkota.com
>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com <m= ailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
>>>>>>>> To:    gecko@lists.gekko= ta.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that wa= s a little=20
>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayis= h skin they have when=20
>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was d= ehydrated and has a=20
>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside= like we do the rest=20
>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg ha= s kept her from being=20
>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty=20= well eating tiny bugs=20
>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has als= o shown a real interest=20
>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I= don't think she has=20
>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday an= d was real cold &=20
>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her ca= ge to help warm her=20
>>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting he= r "egg skin", but she=20
>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she=20= can't get off.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? Sh= e is so tiny we don't=20
>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The res= t of the skin except=20
>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay,= but the stuff around=20
>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, s= o it may be another=20
>>>>>>> matter. :(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as sh= e is really a spunky=20
>>>>>>> little girl.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron

**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers.=20= Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.c= om/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002) --part1_d2d.2d6c76b3.357e1ad2_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 12:38:20 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Lyle Puente) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 07:38:20 -0400 Subject: [gecko] mealworm culture, was shortage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --Boundary_(ID_OKmpW1d8MZ4Delz6gAIGJA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Morning guys, Mealworms are easy to culture I use plastic tubs, shoe box size is fine. Let the larva pupate. Then the beetles will develop and breed right away. I lay burlap over the medium, which can be bran or oat meal. I keep them in a warm place, upper 70's- 80's is good. I keep moving the beetles to a new box once I think its good and egged haha Its very simple and you can leave the beetles in there if you want. I add fresh vegetables for moisture. I use cut Carrots, apples, greens, usually not potatoes as they have limited nutrients. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 12:01 AM, ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: Tracy ~ You're so right! We do what we feel is OK when we see animals suffering. Sometimes the laws are against us. Our intent is to end the animal's suffering quickly. Ya know, when we get a shot the needle hurts just briefly. Do you think the pain of the injection might be more for a gecko? On a far lighter note, what does it take to breed mealworms? I have heard you need a medium such as oat bran and the correct temps and the mealworms will just breed. Have you ever bred any? Perhaps we could separate these threads? Elizabeth > Subj:RE: [gecko] mealworm shortage and guilt with injection as > euthanasia > Date:6/8/08 8:04:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: trace@gexfiles.com (Tracy Vicente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new > jersey and i cant get any. > oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt > with my gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him > a favor, but it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me > (and hours of tears for that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do > when we see the animal obviously suffering... I am truly sorry that > you are in this predicament, and now with the laws against you, I > wish you the best. > > Tracy ************** Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002) --Boundary_(ID_OKmpW1d8MZ4Delz6gAIGJA) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Morning guys,
Mealworms are easy to culture
I use plastic = tubs, shoe box size is fine.
Let the larva pupate. Then the = beetles will develop and breed right away.
I lay burlap over = the medium, which can be bran or oat meal.
I keep them in a = warm place, upper 70's- 80's is good.
I keep moving the = beetles to a new box once I think its good and egged haha
Its = very simple and you can leave the beetles in there if you = want.
I add fresh vegetables for moisture. I use cut Carrots, = apples, greens, usually not potatoes as they have limited = nutrients.

Lyle

Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko = Association
http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/My= BrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, = at 12:01 AM, ElizabethFreer@aol.com = wrote:

Tracy ~
=
You're so right! =A0We do what we feel is OK when we see animals = suffering. =A0Sometimes the laws are against us. =A0Our intent is to end = the animal's suffering quickly.

Ya know, when we get a shot the = needle hurts just briefly. =A0Do you think the pain of the injection = might be more for a gecko?

On a far lighter note, what does it = take to breed mealworms? =A0I have heard you need a medium such as oat = bran and the correct temps and the mealworms will just breed. =A0Have = you ever bred any? =A0Perhaps we could separate these threads?
=
Elizabeth

Subj:RE: = [gecko] mealworm shortage and guilt with injection as euthanasia =
Date:6/8/08 8:04:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: =A0=A0=A0trace@gexfiles.com (Tracy = Vicente)
Sender: =A0=A0=A0gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.co= m
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com=
To: =A0=A0=A0gecko@lists.gekkota.com =

it= actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey and i = cant get any.
oh= and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt with my = gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a favor, but = it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and hours of tears = for that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we see the animal = obviously suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in this = predicament, and now with the laws against you, I wish you the = best.

Tracy =

**************
Get = trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" = on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4?&NCID=3Daolf= od00030000000002)

= --Boundary_(ID_OKmpW1d8MZ4Delz6gAIGJA)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 17:16:58 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 08:16:58 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <484D577A.7040809@ix.netcom.com> Hi Sherron, I have a couple older geckos that I help shed now and then, and I hold them on their backs. They seem more comfortable that way, and I think the heat from my hand helps too. I put my palm over their back and my thumb on their belly and between their front legs, with the point of my thumb toward their head. I hold gently, cause their lungs are under my thumb. This leaves the feet up and the tail free ;-) However, these are mad mads (Phelsuma madagascariensis madagascariensis) and about 8" long, so a lot bigger to work with! I'm not sure how you'd manage that with Li'i, but maybe you can think of something. Blessings, Melody Sherron wrote: > Aloha, Melody > > Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will > see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;) > > We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many > problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a > little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all > those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her > down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is > really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- > she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away. > > Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I > try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving target! > > And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps > opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so > I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we > could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we > aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried > so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it > moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on > the gaping. > I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional > distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt > her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? > Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat > at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning. > > Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured > out already and knows what buttons to push? ;) > > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived > about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was > North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was > a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always > loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;) > > Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries! > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My > best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to > where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the > way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;) > > Thanks, > Sherron > > Melody Hartley wrote: > >> Hi Sharron, >> >> I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com. >> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and >> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of >> someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also >> getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's >> pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I >> think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your >> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you >> don't need the kind with D3 in it. >> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers >> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended >> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-) >> >> You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting >> tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet! >> Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if >> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling >> on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second >> person holding the gecko. >> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now >> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D >> >> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't >> ship them to Oregon though, LOL! >> >> Best of luck! >> Melody >> >> Gecko wrote: >> >>> Aloha, Melody >>> >>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to >>> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to >>> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the >>> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship >>> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good >>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the >>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 >>> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu >>> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would >>> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is >>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! >>> >>> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always >>> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss >>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! >>> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! >>> Much easier! ;) >>> >>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. >>> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to >>> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her >>> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always >>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!! >>> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved >>> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real >>> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, >>> but I sure like the name! ;) >>> >>> Mahalo, >>> Sherron >>> >>> Melody Hartley wrote: >>> >>>> Aloha Sharron, >>>> >>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to >>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that >>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos >>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one >>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give >>>> you more info if you're interested. >>>> >>>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any >>>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go >>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! >>>> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on >>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front >>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out. >>>> >>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although >>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" >>>> -- ah-LO-ah. >>>> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) >>>> >>>> Melody >>>> >>>> Gecko wrote: >>>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that >>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper >>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better. >>>>> >>>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf >>>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on >>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we >>>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out >>>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the >>>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and >>>>> house. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, >>>>> Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full >>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >>>>>> >>>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin >>>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle >>>>>>> up against to assist in the shed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keep us posted! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>>>>>> roamed freely ;-] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest >>>>>>> day gecko >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften >>>>>>> enough to >>>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >>>>>>> neck >>>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right >>>>>>> leg, and >>>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>>>> clumped >>>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together >>>>>>> as a >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. >>>>>>> Although >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just >>>>>>> be the >>>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it >>>>>>> has only >>>>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >>>>>>> lead, and >>>>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, >>>>>>> though, >>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching >>>>>>> her body >>>>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>>>> encased in >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>>>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as >>>>>>> they run >>>>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>>>> house - >>>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). >>>>>>> But we >>>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>>>>> have a >>>>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>>>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>>>>> them first. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >>>>>>>> home >>>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >>>>>>>> know how >>>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a >>>>>>>> new pet >>>>>>>> here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the >>>>>>>> rest of >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from >>>>>>>> being very >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm >>>>>>>> her up. >>>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>>>> has a >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff >>>>>>>> around >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>>>> little girl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Gecko >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >>>>>>> having trouble shedding ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough >>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting >>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >>>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the >>>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some >>>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her >>>>>>> movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use >>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >>>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >>>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. >>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus >>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings >>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots >>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a >>>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water >>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours >>>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her >>>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new >>>>>>>> pet here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest >>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs >>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest >>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >>>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>>>> little girl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l l >>>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^ >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll >>>>>>>> \\\ l l llll /// >>>>>>>> l l llll \\\ >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll /// >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>>>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>>>> ( ) ( >>>>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>>>> lappert(a) robert(a) >>>>>>>> hubert(a) >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo >>>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p. >>>>>>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ************** >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>>>>>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of >>>>>>> Hawaii) >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Global Gecko Association >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com >>>>>> Classifieds >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>>>>> gecko mailing list >>>>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Global Gecko Association >>>> http://www.gekkota.com >>>> Classifieds >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>>> gecko mailing list >>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Global Gecko Association >> http://www.gekkota.com >> Classifieds >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >> gecko mailing list >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >> > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 17:17:14 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> Hi Sherron, I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find out more, or put you in touch with her if you like. Hope this helps, Melody Sherron wrote: > Aloha, Kind Friends > > I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > that it is hopeless. > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile floor. > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was obvious it > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for the best. > > By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken, > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours > since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had > been any hope ... :( > > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and > animals is sadly lacking. > > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with. > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet. > > Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any animal > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native > populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there were good > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat a day > gecko since they cannot be legally kept. > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need something > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like this poor > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could chew and > coughed her back up. > > > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > was worse than the pain she was suffering. > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would be > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos, > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :( > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 16:30:16 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: --_f1903ecd-a8b6-4c24-a8a0-b3f9aeecf139_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would say next time to just flush it. > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:1= 4 -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I thi= nk) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maua= lly". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > H= ope this helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I= prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > c= an see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > = can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > = that it is hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ce= iling onto a tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we trie= d to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so sh= e would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) an= d foot traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and = water. It was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when sti= ll, so we hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, howe= ver, her eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her ski= n was developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeat= edly for air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, = it had been about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to det= eriorate rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were s= till on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trus= t and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we = don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who wou= ld even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for huma= ns is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals.= I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that know= s anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiolog= ist who flies over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1= /2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" pro= blems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > = > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > = cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > r= eally am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > >= how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > = > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a >= > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with= .> > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > >= automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > = > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > = > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suff= ered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals r= eally can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > > taking = your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > > has mad= e me leery of automatically trusting every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing s= ome checking online, I find that it is illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & kee= p any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > > for scientific researc= h) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to k= eep the native species, but not any animal > > banned for import/export tha= t are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in th= is case). So even if there were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking = their license if they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally= kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to= stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need s= omething > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my = husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that = I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants,= we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could= chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're sure she was in terribl= e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was worse than the pain she= was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband fe= lt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in= pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at = all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we h= ave > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day ge= ckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and = I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(> > > > Mahalo, She= rron> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------= -----------------> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Isl= and of Hawaii)> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h= ale-pohaku.com> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.ht= ml> > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Ass= ociation> http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-g= ekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http:/= /lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko _________________________________________________________________ Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends= --_f1903ecd-a8b6-4c24-a8a0-b3f9aeecf139_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    I would say next time to just flush = it.

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
&g= t; Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
> Date:= Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
&g= t; I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find=
> out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.
>
&= gt; Hope this helps,
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
>=
> > Aloha, Kind Friends
> >
> > I prefer to l= et nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you
> > can= see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I
&g= t; > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become appar= ent
> > that it is hopeless.
> >
> > This poor= girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile floor.
> >= ; When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe f= rom
> > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot = traffic, in the
> > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit a= nd water. It was obvious it
> > hurt her to move, but she seemed = okay when still, so we hoped for the best.
> >
> > By th= e afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken,
> = > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy <= BR>> > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which ob= viously
> > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been = about 18-20 hours
> > since her fall and she had started to deter= iorate rapidly. If there had
> > been any hope ... :(
> >= ;
> > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to= our vet who
> > we did trust and who would have treated her prop= erly. But here in the
> > islands, we don't have those resources.= Our real problem is finding
> > someone who would even treat gec= kos. Heck, finding adequate medical
> > treatment for humans is a= big problem on the outer islands, let alone
> > for exotic anima= ls. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a
> > neurolog= ist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My
> > h= usband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island
= > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who wou= ld
> > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both peo= ple and
> > animals is sadly lacking.
> >
> > = And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat
&g= t; > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all.= But I
> > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a v= et who really knew
> > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet= rats in southern California,
> > too. Finding good vets who know= more than cats & dogs has always been a
> > problem -- it's = just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.
> >
= > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when= our own
> > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from hi= s injection -- she
> > suffered a lot from it and it took her a l= ong time to die as she
> > suffered. Not all vets have empathy no= r even seem to believe that
> > animals really can suffer pain. S= o unless you know the vet, you are just
> > taking your chances. = Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience
> > has made me= leery of automatically trusting every vet.
> >
> > Wors= e, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in
> = > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a per= mit
> > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade= in them
> > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, b= ut not any animal
> > banned for import/export that are deemed da= ngerous to the native
> > populations (native insects, in this ca= se). So even if there were good
> > gecko vets, they would be ris= king their license if they to treat a day
> > gecko since they ca= nnot be legally kept.
> >
> > So right now we are pretty= much on our own. We either have to stand by
> > and watch them d= ie, no matter how long it takes, or we need something
> > else we= can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband
> >= ; can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor
> > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten aliv= e by ants, we think
> > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit of= f more than it could chew and
> > coughed her back up.
> &g= t;
> >
> > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can= 't believe that freezing her
> > was worse than the pain she was = suffering.
> >
> > I didn't know what to do for them, bu= t my husband felt freezing would be
> > quicker and kinder than l= etting them slowly die in pain. If we were
> > wrong, I regret it= immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for
> > mammals; I ju= st do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have
> > encountered = such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos,
> > = it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am
&= gt; > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(
> >
&= gt; > Mahalo, Sherron
> >
> >
> > ---------= -------------------------------------------------------------------
>= > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii)<= BR>> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-p= ohaku.com
> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgalle= ry.html
> >
>
> ____________________________________= ___________
> Global Gecko Association
> http://www.gekkota.com=
> Classifieds
> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds= .cgi
> gecko mailing list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> htt= p://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

Instantly invit= e friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Li= ve=99 Messenger. Invite friends now! = --_f1903ecd-a8b6-4c24-a8a0-b3f9aeecf139_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 16:59:55 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:59:55 +0000 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: --_44fbf98b-9b31-4fec-b97e-4843ac679a46_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I meant the G= GA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The problem is that the = joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over the last week and not = one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This is what the GGA was suppos= ed to be... =20 "The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts wor= ldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from th= e professional herpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in gekkonids in = a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to study in the wild, con= servation, academic research and beyond. Furthermore, the GGA will serve p= eople who are interested in gekkonids by providing a voice and means of com= municating and sharing of resources and ideas. "=20 =20 Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I maintai= n one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species collections in the w= orld(over 200 species). My life revolves around geckos,not one person in th= e GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA die = already.Put it out of it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical thing t= o do. You are helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is far b= eyond being rediculous. =20 PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance. =20 GGA...R.I.P. =20 Very kindest regards, =20 Jay "GG" Sommers From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck= o]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +000= 0 I would say next time to just flush it. > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:1= 4 -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I thi= nk) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maua= lly". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > H= ope this helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I= prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > c= an see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > = can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > = that it is hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ce= iling onto a tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we trie= d to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so sh= e would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) an= d foot traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and = water. It was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when sti= ll, so we hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, howe= ver, her eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her ski= n was developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeat= edly for air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, = it had been about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to det= eriorate rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were s= till on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trus= t and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we = don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who wou= ld even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for huma= ns is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals.= I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that know= s anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiolog= ist who flies over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1= /2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" pro= blems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > = > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > = cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > r= eally am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > >= how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > = > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a >= > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with= .> > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > >= automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > = > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > = > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suff= ered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals r= eally can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > > taking = your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > > has mad= e me leery of automatically trusting every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing s= ome checking online, I find that it is illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & kee= p any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > > for scientific researc= h) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to k= eep the native species, but not any animal > > banned for import/export tha= t are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in th= is case). So even if there were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking = their license if they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally= kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to= stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need s= omething > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my = husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that = I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants,= we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could= chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're sure she was in terribl= e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was worse than the pain she= was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband fe= lt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in= pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at = all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we h= ave > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day ge= ckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and = I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(> > > > Mahalo, She= rron> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------= -----------------> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Isl= and of Hawaii)> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h= ale-pohaku.com> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.ht= ml> > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Ass= ociation> http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-g= ekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http:/= /lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger. Invite friends now!=20 _________________________________________________________________ It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn how. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_LearnHow= --_44fbf98b-9b31-4fec-b97e-4843ac679a46_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually I should clarify my last post. Whe= n I said flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a patheti= c joke.The problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing= up over the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. = This is what the GGA was supposed to be...

"The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiast= s worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, fr= om the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist.
The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in gekkonid= s in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to study in the wild= , conservation, academic research and beyond. Furthermore, the GGA will ser= ve people who are interested in gekkonids by providing a voice and me= ans of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas. "

Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I ma= intain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species collections in = the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around geckos,not one person = in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA= die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical th= ing to do. You are helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is = far beyond being rediculous.

PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance.=

            &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      GGA...R.I.P.

   Very kindest regards,

            &nb= sp;       Jay "GG" Sommers

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: R= E: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 1= 5:30:16 +0000

   I would say next time to just flush it.

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
&g= t; Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
> Date:= Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
&g= t; I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find=
> out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.
>
&= gt; Hope this helps,
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
>=
> > Aloha, Kind Friends
> >
> > I prefer to l= et nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you
> > can= see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I
&g= t; > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become appar= ent
> > that it is hopeless.
> >
> > This poor= girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile floor.
> >= ; When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe f= rom
> > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot = traffic, in the
> > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit a= nd water. It was obvious it
> > hurt her to move, but she seemed = okay when still, so we hoped for the best.
> >
> > By th= e afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken,
> = > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy <= BR>> > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which ob= viously
> > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been = about 18-20 hours
> > since her fall and she had started to deter= iorate rapidly. If there had
> > been any hope ... :(
> >= ;
> > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to= our vet who
> > we did trust and who would have treated her prop= erly. But here in the
> > islands, we don't have those resources.= Our real problem is finding
> > someone who would even treat gec= kos. Heck, finding adequate medical
> > treatment for humans is a= big problem on the outer islands, let alone
> > for exotic anima= ls. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a
> > neurolog= ist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My
> > h= usband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island
= > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who wou= ld
> > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both peo= ple and
> > animals is sadly lacking.
> >
> > = And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat
&g= t; > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all.= But I
> > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a v= et who really knew
> > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet= rats in southern California,
> > too. Finding good vets who know= more than cats & dogs has always been a
> > problem -- it's = just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.
> >
= > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when= our own
> > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from hi= s injection -- she
> > suffered a lot from it and it took her a l= ong time to die as she
> > suffered. Not all vets have empathy no= r even seem to believe that
> > animals really can suffer pain. S= o unless you know the vet, you are just
> > taking your chances. = Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience
> > has made me= leery of automatically trusting every vet.
> >
> > Wors= e, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in
> = > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a per= mit
> > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade= in them
> > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, b= ut not any animal
> > banned for import/export that are deemed da= ngerous to the native
> > populations (native insects, in this ca= se). So even if there were good
> > gecko vets, they would be ris= king their license if they to treat a day
> > gecko since they ca= nnot be legally kept.
> >
> > So right now we are pretty= much on our own. We either have to stand by
> > and watch them d= ie, no matter how long it takes, or we need something
> > else we= can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband
> >= ; can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor
> > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten aliv= e by ants, we think
> > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit of= f more than it could chew and
> > coughed her back up.
> &g= t;
> >
> > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can= 't believe that freezing her
> > was worse than the pain she was = suffering.
> >
> > I didn't know what to do for them, bu= t my husband felt freezing would be
> > quicker and kinder than l= etting them slowly die in pain. If we were
> > wrong, I regret it= immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for
> > mammals; I ju= st do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have
> > encountered = such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos,
> > = it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am
&= gt; > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(
> >
&= gt; > Mahalo, Sherron
> >
> >
> > ---------= -------------------------------------------------------------------
>= > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii)<= BR>> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-p= ohaku.com
> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgalle= ry.html
> >
>
> ____________________________________= ___________
> Global Gecko Association
> http://www.gekkota.com=
> Classifieds
> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds= .cgi
> gecko mailing list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> htt= p://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger. Invite friends now= !

It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook an= d other social sites through Windows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How. = --_44fbf98b-9b31-4fec-b97e-4843ac679a46_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 17:16:20 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Lyle Puente) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <143A73CE-5C8D-4991-8C8E-CECE1115D64C@optonline.net> --Boundary_(ID_YPht2ot862VXiIy9rRen0g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never =20 intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests. The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the =20 membership addressed and will continue to do so. This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge =20 and to help when we can. Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also =20 criticism freely. I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that: "Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the =20= professional herpetologist to the hobbyist." The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they =20 have no interest in or unsubscribe. All are welcome ( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... ) Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I =20 meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The =20 problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up =20 over the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my =20 inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be... "The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko =20 enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest =20 in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in =20 gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to =20 study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. =20 Furthermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in =20 gekkonids by providing a voice and means of communicating and sharing =20= of resources and ideas. " Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I =20 maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species =20 collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around =20 geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of =20 you know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's =20 misery,It is the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping =20= destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being =20 rediculous. PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance. GGA...R.I.P. Very kindest regards, Jay "GG" Sommers From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000 I would say next time to just flush it. > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800 > > Hi Sherron, > > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like. > > Hope this helps, > Melody > > Sherron wrote: > > > Aloha, Kind Friends > > > > I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But =20 sometimes you > > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, =20= too. I > > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become =20 apparent > > that it is hopeless. > > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile =20= floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move =20 her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot =20 traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was =20 obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped =20 for the best. > > > > By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly =20 sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black =20 blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which =20 obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 =20= hours > > since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If =20 there had > > been any hope ... :( > > > > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our =20 vet who > > we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here =20 in the > > islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let =20 alone > > for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't =20 find a > > neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the =20= island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking. > > > > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just =20 treat > > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. =20 But I > > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who =20 really knew > > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern =20 California, > > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always =20= been a > > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to =20 start with. > > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when =20 our own > > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection =20 -- she > > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you =20 are just > > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that =20 experience > > has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet. > > > > Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is =20 illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a =20 permit > > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any =20 animal > > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there =20 were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat =20= a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally kept. > > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to =20 stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need =20 something > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my =20 husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I =20= could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like =20 this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we =20= think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could =20 chew and > > coughed her back up. > > > > > > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that =20 freezing her > > was worse than the pain she was suffering. > > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing =20 would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day =20= geckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and =20= I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :( > > > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------=20= ---- > > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of =20 Hawaii) > > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-=20 pohaku.com > > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to =20 join you on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends now! It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites =20 through Windows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How. --Boundary_(ID_YPht2ot862VXiIy9rRen0g) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never = intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self = interests.
The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all = interests of the membership addressed and will continue to do = so.
This list is open to all, including non GGA members free = of charge and to help when we can.
Everyone is free to post, = questions, help suggestions and also=A0criticism=A0freely.
I = read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just = that:

"Membership is open to = anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional = herpetologist to the hobbyist."

The threads are labeled here and one can = always deleted those they have no interest in or = unsubscribe.

All are welcome
( i just = put on some John Denver hahaha ...... = )

Lyle

Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko = Association
http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/My= BrothersBanned

O= n Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:

=A0Actually I should clarify my = last post. When I said flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been = reduced to a pathetic joke.The problem is that the joke has no humor. My = email has been blowing up over the last week and not one post was worthy = of landing in my inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to = be...
=A0
=A0 "The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to = gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an = interest in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist to the = hobbyist.
=A0 The GGA is an organization committed to promote = interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive = care, to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. = Furthermore, the GGA will serve=A0 people who are interested in = gekkonids by providing a voice and means of communicating and sharing of = resources and ideas.=A0"=A0
=A0
=A0 Now before anyone gets upset.I = have a right to voice my opinion.I maintain one of the largest and most = diverse geckonid species collections in the world(over 200 species). My = life revolves around geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more = than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of = it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are = helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being = rediculous.
=A0
=A0 PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue = for social = acceptance.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= GGA...R.I.P.
=A0
=A0=A0 Very kindest = regards,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= Jay "GG" Sommers

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
T= o: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sub= ject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Date: Mon, 9 = Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000

=A0=A0 I would say next time to just = flush it.

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> = To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> = Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
> Date: = Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800
>=A0
> Hi Sherron,
>=A0
> I know a snake-keeper = that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide=A0
> chamber, because she = doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find=A0
> out more, or put you in = touch with her if you like.
>=A0
> Hope this helps,
> = Melody
>=A0
> Sherron = wrote:
>=A0
> > = Aloha, Kind Friends
> >=A0
> > I prefer to let nature = take its course usually, too. But sometimes you=A0
> > can see they are in = obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I=A0
> > can't bear to see them = in pain. Especially when it has become apparent=A0
> > that it is = hopeless.
> >=A0
> > = This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile = floor.=A0
> > When we = found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out=A0
> > of the way. We placed = her in a container so she would be safe from=A0
> > predators (other = geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the=A0
> > hopes she would = recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was obvious it=A0
> > hurt her to move, but = she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for the best.
> >=A0
> > By the afternoon of = the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken,=A0
> > she had trouble = breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy=A0
> > areas. She would = stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously=A0
> > was causing her more = pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours=A0
> > since her fall and she = had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had=A0
> > been any hope ... = :(
> >=A0
> > If we = were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who=A0
> > we did trust and who = would have treated her properly. But here in the=A0
> > islands, we don't have = those resources. Our real problem is finding=A0
> > someone who would even = treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical=A0
> > treatment for humans = is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone=A0
> > for exotic animals. I = have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a=A0
> > neurologist that knows = anything about my disease on this island. My=A0
> > husband sees a = cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island=A0
> > of Oahu. It took me = 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would=A0
> > treat my "complicated" = problems. Medical care for both people and=A0
> > animals is sadly = lacking.
> >=A0
> > = And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just = treat=A0
> > cats & = dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I=A0
> > really am not = surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew=A0
> > how to take care of = "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California,=A0
> > too. Finding good vets = who know more than cats & dogs has always been a=A0
> > problem -- it's just = that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.
> >=A0
> > I am also no longer = convinced that a shot from just any vet is=A0
> > automatically better. = I took one of my rats to another vet when our own=A0
> > vet was out of town = and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she=A0
> > suffered a lot from it = and it took her a long time to die as she=A0
> > suffered. Not all vets = have empathy nor even seem to believe that=A0
> > animals really can = suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just=A0
> > taking your chances. = Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience=A0
> > has made me leery of = automatically trusting every vet.
> >=A0
> > Worse, after doing = some checking online, I find that it is illegal in=A0
> > Hawaii to catch & = keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit=A0
> > for scientific = research) in order to discourage any trade in them=A0
> > whatsoever. It is okay = to keep the native species, but not any animal=A0
> > banned for = import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native=A0
> > populations (native = insects, in this case). So even if there were good=A0
> > gecko vets, they would = be risking their license if they to treat a day=A0
> > gecko since they = cannot be legally kept.
> >=A0
> > So right now we are = pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by=A0
> > and watch them die, no = matter how long it takes, or we need something=A0
> > else we can come up = with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband=A0
> > can "smash" them, as = someone else suggested. I don't know that I could=A0
> > unless they were = already partially crushed already ... or like this poor=A0
> > little baby we found = on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think=A0
> > partially eaten by a = day gecko who bit off more than it could chew and=A0
> > coughed her back = up.
> >=A0
> >=A0
> > We're sure she was in = terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her=A0
> > was worse than the = pain she was suffering.
> >=A0
> > I didn't know what to = do for them, but my husband felt freezing would be=A0
> > quicker and kinder = than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were=A0
> > wrong, I regret it = immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for=A0
> > mammals; I just do not = know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have=A0
> > encountered such = dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos,=A0
> > it is possible this = horrible situation will come up again -- and I am=A0
> > desperate for a better = choice. Can you help? :(
> >=A0
> > Mahalo, Sherron
> = >=A0
> >=A0
> > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of = Hawaii)
> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron= - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
= > > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.= com/dennis/ratgallery.html
> >=A0
>=A0
> = _______________________________________________
> Global Gecko = Association
> http://www.gekkota.com
> = Classifieds
> http://www.gek= kota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> gecko mailing list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> = http://lists.gekk= ota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

Instantly invite friends = from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live=99 = Messenger.Invite friends = now!

It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook = and other social sites through Windows Live=99 Messenger.=A0Learn = How.

= --Boundary_(ID_YPht2ot862VXiIy9rRen0g)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 17:19:34 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Sherron) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 06:19:34 -1000 Subject: [gecko] mealworm shortage and guilt with injection as euthanasia In-Reply-To: <000401c8c9dd$5a17e550$0201a8c0@HP540n> References: <000401c8c9dd$5a17e550$0201a8c0@HP540n> Message-ID: <484D5816.1080402@gmail.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010809090703060008050308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Tracy. We went through the same thing with our rat. We can only do what we think is best and I also have feelings of guilt no matter which choice I make. Do I let them die on their own when I know they are suffering? Do I hasten their death when it might increase their suffering, but for a shorter time? How can I know which hurts them more? At least we love them and try to do what we think hurts them the least. But I remember them all, too. And they all haunt me. :( Sherron Tracy Vicente wrote: > it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey > and i cant get any. > oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt > with my gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a > favor, but it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and > hours of tears for that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we > see the animal obviously suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in > this predicament, and now with the laws against you, I wish you the best. > > Tracy > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html --------------010809090703060008050308 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you Tracy. We went through the same thing with our rat. We can only do what we think is best and I also have feelings of guilt no matter which choice I make. Do I let them die on their own when I know they are suffering? Do I hasten their death when it might increase their suffering, but for a shorter time? How can I know which hurts them more? At least we love them and try to do what we think hurts them the least. But I remember them all, too. And they all haunt me. :(

Sherron

Tracy Vicente wrote:
Message
it actually is true about the mealworm shortage.. i am in new jersey and i cant get any.

oh and about the injection for euthanasia, i felt soooo much guilt with my gecko, he was suffering so bad so i thought i was doing him a favor, but it hurt him and it left a lasting impression on me (and hours of tears for that guilt).. it is SO hard, what do we do when we see the animal obviously suffering... I am truly sorry that you are in this predicament, and now with the laws against you, I wish you the best.

Tracy

-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii) Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
--------------010809090703060008050308-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 19:29:58 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (yehudah werner) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gecko]Before and after euthanasia, and Hawaii's geckos Message-ID: <323423.67114.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-1658848288-1213036198=:67114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments. 1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with. 2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection. 3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who since arrival in the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial). Hoping to have served, Yehudah Yehudah L. Werner Professor Emeritus of Zoology Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 91904 Jerusalem, Israel Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct) Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office) e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576 --0-1658848288-1213036198=:67114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello,

    The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments.

    1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with.

    2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection.

    3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who since arrival in the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial).

    Hoping to have served, Yehudah



Yehudah L. Werner
Professor Emeritus of Zoology
Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
91904 Jerusalem, Israel
Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct)
Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office)
e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com
Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576
--0-1658848288-1213036198=:67114-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 20:01:00 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Lyle Puente) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:01:00 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Before and after euthanasia, and Hawaii's geckos In-Reply-To: <323423.67114.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <323423.67114.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6051E38F-1243-4467-BBF0-36440EFA1BBB@optonline.net> --Boundary_(ID_ZtphptXI9u2Z4jjSEym6/Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Excellent points Dr. Werner On donation, Gregory Watkins Colwell at Yale takes frozen specimens. Anyone in the NY Metro region can drop them with me or meet me at the White Plains Expo. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:29 PM, yehudah werner wrote: Hello, The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments. 1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with. 2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection. 3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who since arrival in the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial). Hoping to have served, Yehudah Yehudah L. Werner Professor Emeritus of Zoology Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 91904 Jerusalem, Israel Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct) Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office) e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576 --Boundary_(ID_ZtphptXI9u2Z4jjSEym6/Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Excellent points Dr. Werner

On donation, Gregory = Watkins Colwell at Yale takes frozen specimens.
Anyone in the = NY Metro region can drop them with me or meet me at the White Plains = Expo.

Lyle

Lyle = Puente
President
Global Gecko = Association
http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/My= BrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:29 PM, yehudah werner wrote:

Hello,

=A0=A0=A0 = The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being = problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments.

=A0=A0=A0= 1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its = four feet is probably sick to begin with.=A0

=A0=A0=A0 2, = Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead = pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age = etc.) to some public museum collection.

=A0=A0=A0 3, To my = understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not = for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the = local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course = means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, = who=A0since arrival in=A0the 1940s has been displacing = Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The = moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early = invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), = whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional = (artificial).

=A0=A0=A0 Hoping to have served, Yehudah
=
=A0=A0=A0 =A0

Yehudah L. Werner
Professor Emeritus = of Zoology
Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology
The = Hebrew University of Jerusalem
91904 Jerusalem, Israel
Tel. = 972-2-6585874 (direct)
Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental = office)
e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com
Home = tel./fax 972-2-5665576

= --Boundary_(ID_ZtphptXI9u2Z4jjSEym6/Q)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 22:16:19 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 21:16:19 +0000 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: <143A73CE-5C8D-4991-8C8E-CECE1115D64C@optonline.net> References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> <143A73CE-5C8D-4991-8C8E-CECE1115D64C@optonline.net> Message-ID: --_3b0fd34c-49e4-4e40-9d53-0166f98f1a74_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lyle, =20 There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the board of t= he so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and furthe= rmore no real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of any rea= l merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...I am = judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ever to= this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would have le= arned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you personally respons= ible for the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think the GGA was= beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position as Presiden= t. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason for the GGA t= o exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let nature take it's c= ourse and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out with some damn dignity. =20 =20 Jay "GG" Sommers From: lylepuente@optonline.netSubject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distres= sed Geckos...To: gecko@lists.gekkota.comDate: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -040= 0GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never intended= or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests.=20 The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the member= ship addressed and will continue to do so. This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and to h= elp when we can. Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also criticism fr= eely. I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that: "Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the profe= ssional herpetologist to the hobbyist." The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they have no = interest in or unsubscribe. All are welcome ( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... ) Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify m= y last post. When I said flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been redu= ced to a pathetic joke.The problem is that the joke has no humor. My email = has been blowing up over the last week and not one post was worthy of landi= ng in my inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be... "The Global Ge= cko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membersh= ip is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional h= erpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to prom= ote interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive ca= re, to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furth= ermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by provi= ding a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas.= " Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I mai= ntain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species collections in t= he world(over 200 species). My life revolves around geckos,not one person i= n the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA = die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical thi= ng to do. You are helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is f= ar beyond being rediculous. PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue= for social acceptance. GGA...R= .I.P. Very kindest regards, Jay "GG" Sommers From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck= o]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +000= 0 I would say next time to just flush it. > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:1= 4 -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I thi= nk) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maua= lly". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > H= ope this helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I= prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > c= an see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > = can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > = that it is hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ce= iling onto a tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we trie= d to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so sh= e would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) an= d foot traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and = water. It was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when sti= ll, so we hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, howe= ver, her eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her ski= n was developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeat= edly for air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, = it had been about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to det= eriorate rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were s= till on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trus= t and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we = don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who wou= ld even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for huma= ns is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals.= I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that know= s anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiolog= ist who flies over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1= /2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" pro= blems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > = > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > = cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > r= eally am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > >= how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > = > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a >= > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with= .> > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > >= automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > = > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > = > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suff= ered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals r= eally can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > > taking = your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > > has mad= e me leery of automatically trusting every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing s= ome checking online, I find that it is illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & kee= p any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > > for scientific researc= h) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to k= eep the native species, but not any animal > > banned for import/export tha= t are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in th= is case). So even if there were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking = their license if they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally= kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to= stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need s= omething > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my = husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that = I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants,= we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could= chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're sure she was in terribl= e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was worse than the pain she= was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband fe= lt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in= pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at = all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we h= ave > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day ge= ckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and = I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(> > > > Mahalo, She= rron> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------= -----------------> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Isl= and of Hawaii)> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h= ale-pohaku.com> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.ht= ml> > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Ass= ociation> http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-g= ekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http:/= /lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends now! It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How. _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refre= sh_skydrive_062008= --_3b0fd34c-49e4-4e40-9d53-0166f98f1a74_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lyle,

There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the board= of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and f= urthermore no real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of an= y real merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...= I am judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ev= er to this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would ha= ve learned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you personally re= sponsible for the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think t= he GGA was beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position a= s President. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason for= the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let nature t= ake it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out with some damn d= ignity.

            &nb= sp;     Jay "GG" Sommers

From: lylepuente@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Dis= tressed Geckos...
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 1= 2:16:20 -0400

GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. I= t was never intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self int= erests.=20
The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the m= embership addressed and will continue to do so.

This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and= to help when we can.

Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also cr= iticism freely.

I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that= :

"Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, fro= m the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist."

The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they hav= e no interest in or unsubscribe.

All are welcome

( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... )

Lyle

Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota= .org

http://ww= w.MyBrothersBanned.com

ht= tp://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:

Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush = it I meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The prob= lem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over the la= st week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This is what th= e GGA was supposed to be...

"The Global Gecko Associati= on (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to= anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist = to the hobbyist.
The GGA is an organization committed to promote = interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, = to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furthermo= re, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by prov= iding a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas= . "

Now before anyone gets upset.I have a ri= ght to voice my opinion.I maintain one of the largest and most diverse geck= onid species collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves a= round geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of yo= u know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is th= e responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the interest= in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being rediculous.

= ; PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance.
&= nbsp;
           =             &nb= sp;            =         GGA...R.I.P.

= Very kindest regards,

     &nb= sp;            = Jay "GG" Sommers

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com<= /A>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.c= om
Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Dat= e: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000

   I would say next time= to just flush it.

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com=
> To: gecko@lists.gek= kota.com
> Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Gecko= s...
> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
> I know a snake-keeper tha= t kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide
> chamber, because she doesn't like to kill the= m "maually". I can find =
> out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.
>
> Hope this helps,
&= gt; Melody
>
&= gt; Sherron wrote:
>
> > Aloha, Kind Friends
> >
> > I prefer to let nature take its cou= rse usually, too. But sometimes you&= nbsp;
> > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hur= ts me too much, too. I <= BR>> > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become = apparent
> > t= hat it is hopeless.
> >&nbs= p;
> > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling= onto a tile floor.
= > > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move he= r out
> > of t= he way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from
> > predators (other gec= kos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the
> > hopes she would recover, and gav= e her fruit and water. It was obvious it
> > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when s= till, so we hoped for the best.
> >
> > By the afternoon of the next day, howeve= r, her eyes were badly sunken, =
> > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing= black blotchy
> = > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously<= SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>
> > was causin= g her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours
> > since her fall and she h= ad started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had
> > been any hope ... :(
> >
> > If we were st= ill on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who
> > we did trust and who would= have treated her properly. But here in the
> > islands, we don't have those resources. O= ur real problem is finding
> > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequat= e medical
> > = treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone
> > for exotic anim= als. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a
> > neurologist that knows anything= about my disease on this island. My=
> > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once = a month from the island =
> > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who= would
> > tre= at my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and
> > animals is sadly lac= king.
> >
&= gt; > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just tre= at
> > cats &a= mp; dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I
> > really am not surp= rised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew
> > how to take care of "exotics" = like our pet rats in southern California,
> > too. Finding good vets who know more than c= ats & dogs has always been a&nbs= p;
> > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far= fewer to start with.
> >&n= bsp;
> > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from jus= t any vet is
> &g= t; automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own<= SPAN class=3DEC_Apple-converted-space>
> > vet was ou= t of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she
> > suffered a lot from it a= nd it took her a long time to die as she
> > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even= seem to believe that > > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you= are just
> > = taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience
> > has made me le= ery of automatically trusting every vet.
> >
> > Worse, after doing some checkin= g online, I find that it is illegal in
> > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in H= awaii (except with a permit
> > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade= in them
> > w= hatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any animal
> > banned for impor= t/export that are deemed dangerous to the native
> > populations (native insects, in this= case). So even if there were good&n= bsp;
> > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if= they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally kept.
> >
> > So right now we are = pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by
> > and watch them die, no matter how = long it takes, or we need something&= nbsp;
> > else we can come up with to make their going easi= er. Maybe my husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I= could
> > unl= ess they were already partially crushed already ... or like this poor
> > little baby we = found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think
> > partially eaten by a day geck= o who bit off more than it could chew and
> > coughed her back up.
> >
> >
> > We're sure she was in terribl= e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her
> > was worse than the pain she was suffering= .
> >
> = > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would = be
> > quicker= and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were
> > wrong, I regret it immen= sely. I do know it is not at all kind for
> > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. T= hankfully, we have
&= gt; > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day g= eckos,
> > it = is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I am
> > desperate for a be= tter choice. Can you help? :(
> >
> > Mahalo, Sherron
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------= -------------------------------------------
> > Gecko aka Sherron,= Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii)
> > Homepage: <= A href=3D"http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron" target=3D_blank>http://hale-pohak= u.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h= ale-pohaku.com
> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/= ratgallery.html
> >&nbs= p;
>
&g= t; _______________________________________________
> Global Gecko Ass= ociation
> http:/= /www.gekkota.com
> Classifieds
> http://www.gekkota.com= /cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> gecko mailing list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> ht= tp://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends now!=

It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How.

Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live SkyDrive. = --_3b0fd34c-49e4-4e40-9d53-0166f98f1a74_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 22:20:21 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Andrea Dougall) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:20:21 -0700 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> <143A73CE-5C8D-4991-8C8E-CECE1115D64C@optonline.net> Message-ID: ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8CA76.B82B1BE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please remove me from the listserve. Thanks! =20 Andrea=20 ________________________________ From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com on behalf of Jay Sommers Sent: Mon 6/9/2008 2:16 PM To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Lyle, =20 There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the board = of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and = furthermore no real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done = of any real merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of = merit...I am judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance = what-so-ever to this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought = everyone would have learned something. Apparently not. As president I = hold you personally responsible for the inexcusable lack of leadership. = If I didn't think the GGA was beyond repair I would directly challenge = you for your position as President. The problem is it is too far gone. = There is no real reason for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing = to do would be to let nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus = Christ,let it go out with some damn dignity. =20 =20 Jay "GG" Sommers ________________________________ From: lylepuente@optonline.net Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400 =09 GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never = intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests.=20 The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the = membership addressed and will continue to do so. This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and = to help when we can. Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also = criticism freely. I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that: "Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the = professional herpetologist to the hobbyist." =09 =09 The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they have = no interest in or unsubscribe. All are welcome ( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... ) Lyle =09 Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org =20 http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com =20 http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I meant = the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The problem is = that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over the last = week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This is what = the GGA was supposed to be... =20 "The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts = worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, = from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in gekkonids = in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to study in the = wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furthermore, the GGA = will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by providing a voice = and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas. "=20 =20 Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I = maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species = collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around = geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you = know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is = the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the = interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being rediculous. =20 PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance. =20 GGA...R.I.P. =20 Very kindest regards, =20 Jay "GG" Sommers =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 ________________________________ From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000 =09 I would say next time to just flush it. =09 =09 =09 =09 ________________________________ > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800 >=20 > Hi Sherron, >=20 > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a = carbon-dioxide=20 > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find = > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like. >=20 > Hope this helps, > Melody >=20 > Sherron wrote: >=20 > > Aloha, Kind Friends > >=20 > > I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes = you=20 > > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, = too. I=20 > > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become = apparent=20 > > that it is hopeless. > >=20 > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile = floor.=20 > > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her = out=20 > > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from = > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, = in the=20 > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was = obvious it=20 > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for = the best. > >=20 > > By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly = sunken,=20 > > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black = blotchy=20 > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which = obviously=20 > > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 = hours=20 > > since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If = there had=20 > > been any hope ... :( > >=20 > > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our = vet who=20 > > we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in = the=20 > > islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is = finding=20 > > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate = medical=20 > > treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let = alone=20 > > for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find = a=20 > > neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. = My=20 > > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the = island=20 > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who = would=20 > > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and=20 > > animals is sadly lacking. > >=20 > > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just = treat=20 > > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. = But I=20 > > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who = really knew=20 > > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern = California,=20 > > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always = been a=20 > > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to = start with. > >=20 > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is=20 > > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when = our own=20 > > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- = she=20 > > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she=20 > > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that=20 > > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you = are just=20 > > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that = experience=20 > > has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet. > >=20 > > Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal = in=20 > > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a = permit=20 > > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them=20 > > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any = animal=20 > > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native=20 > > populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there were = good=20 > > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat a = day=20 > > gecko since they cannot be legally kept. > >=20 > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to = stand by=20 > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need = something=20 > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my = husband=20 > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I = could=20 > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor=20 > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we = think=20 > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could chew = and=20 > > coughed her back up. > >=20 > >=20 > > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that = freezing her=20 > > was worse than the pain she was suffering. > >=20 > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing = would be=20 > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we = were=20 > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for=20 > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have=20 > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day = geckos,=20 > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and I = am=20 > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :( > >=20 > > Mahalo, Sherron > >=20 > >=20 > > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of = Hawaii) > > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - = mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com > > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com =20 > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko =09 =09 ________________________________ Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to = join you on Windows Live(tm) Messenger.Invite friends now! = = =20 ________________________________ It's easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through = Windows Live(tm) Messenger. Learn How. = =20 ________________________________ Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. 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TUVGUk9NVEhFTElTVFNFUlZFVEhBTktTQU5EUkVBRlJPTTpHRUNLTy1BRE1JTkBMSVNUU0dFS0tP VEFDT01PTkJFSEFMRk9GSkFZU09NTUVSU1NFTlQ6TQAAAAACAX8AAQAAAEMAAAA8QTkxODIxN0Q0 NTA2NTU0RUI2QTg1MUNDNzJFRjVFQTIyMkNDRjJAem9vLWZpbGUwMS5vYWtsYW5kem9vLm9yZz4A AIj/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8CA76.B82B1BE6-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 22:30:42 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:30:42 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Before and after euthanasia, and Hawaii's geckos In-Reply-To: <6051E38F-1243-4467-BBF0-36440EFA1BBB@optonline.net> References: <323423.67114.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6051E38F-1243-4467-BBF0-36440EFA1BBB@optonline.net> Message-ID: <8CA988F3462BA34-114-1951@webmail-ne10.sysops.aol.com> ----------MB_8CA988F34A57C7C_114_3245_webmail-ne10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lyle ~ Spurred by?an article of Greg's in a Chit-Chat (Life After Death?),?I once sent Greg a Lepidodactylus lugubris embryo packed in dry ice?that had developed two heads with something of a third head on top.? This is an excellent way to educate! Elizabeth Excellent points Dr. Werner On donation, Gregory Watkins Colwell at Yale takes frozen specimens. Anyone in the NY Metro region can drop them with me or meet me at the White Plains Expo. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:29 PM, yehudah werner wrote: Hello, ??? The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments. ??? 1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with.? ??? 2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection. ??? 3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who?since arrival in?the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial). ??? Hoping to have served, Yehudah ??? ? Yehudah L. Werner Professor Emeritus of Zoology Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 91904 Jerusalem, Israel Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct) Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office) e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576 -----Original Message----- From: Lyle Puente To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:01 pm Subject: Re: [gecko]Before and after euthanasia, and Hawaii's geckos Excellent points Dr. Werner On donation, Gregory Watkins Colwell at Yale takes frozen specimens. Anyone in the NY Metro region can drop them with me or meet me at the White Plains Expo. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:29 PM, yehudah werner wrote: Hello, ??? The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments. ??? 1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with.? ??? 2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection. ??? 3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who?since arrival in?the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial). ??? Hoping to have served, Yehudah ??? ? Yehudah L. Werner Professor Emeritus of Zoology Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 91904 Jerusalem, Israel Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct) Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office) e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576 = ----------MB_8CA988F34A57C7C_114_3245_webmail-ne10.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Lyle ~

Spurred by an article of Greg's in a Chit-Chat (Life After Death?), I once sent Greg a Lepidodactylus lugubris embryo packed in dry ice that had developed two heads with something of a third head on top. This is an excellent way to educate!

Elizabeth

Excellent points Dr. Werner

On donation, Gregory Watkins Colwell at Yale takes frozen specimens.

Anyone in the NY Metro region can drop them with me or meet me at the White Plains Expo.

Lyle

Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com

http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:29 PM, yehudah werner wrote:

Hello,

    The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments.

    1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with.

    2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection.

    3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who since arrival in the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial).

    Hoping to have served, Yehudah



Yehudah L. Werner
Professor Emeritus of Zoology
Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
91904 Jerusalem, Israel
Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct)
Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office)
e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com
Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576

-----Original Message-----
From: Lyle Puente <lylepuente@optonline.net>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:01 pm
Subject: Re: [gecko]Before and after euthanasia, and Hawaii's geckos

Excellent points Dr. Werner

On donation, Gregory Watkins Colwell at Yale takes frozen specimens.

Anyone in the NY Metro region can drop them with me or meet me at the White Plains Expo.

Lyle

Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com

http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:29 PM, yehudah werner wrote:

Hello,

    The recent messages re geckos requiring euthanasia and this being problematic on Hawaiian islands, stimulate 3 comments.

    1, A gecko that drops off the ceiling and/or lands other than on its four feet is probably sick to begin with.

    2, Even geckos don't live forever. What does everybody do with the dead pets? They should be donated (with maximum info on their origin, age etc.) to some public museum collection.

    3, To my understanding, on Hawaii, the colonizing day geckos are semi-banned not for their endangering the local insects (this is already done by the local geckos) but because they displace the local geckos. This of course means that they displace Hemidactylus frenatus, who since arrival in the 1940s has been displacing Hemidactylus garnotii, who arrived much earlier. The moral difference between the waves of invasion is that the early invasions were unintentional (which is natural for commensal geckos), whereas the latest is supected of having been intentional (artificial).

    Hoping to have served, Yehudah



Yehudah L. Werner
Professor Emeritus of Zoology
Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
91904 Jerusalem, Israel
Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct)
Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office)
e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com
Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576

=

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----------MB_8CA988F34A57C7C_114_3245_webmail-ne10.sysops.aol.com-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Jun 9 22:47:54 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Lyle Puente) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:47:54 -0400 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> <143A73CE-5C8D-4991-8C8E-CECE1115D64C@optonline.net> Message-ID: --Boundary_(ID_bH2o5sud953nj52qBkqudA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jay, you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you missed =20 all the publications. We have put out some beautiful editions that we are quite proud of Joining, or volunteering to help would would be more productive than =20 trashing something people have worked very hard on, without any =20 compensation, rather paying out our own pockets to keep things going. =20= We have two lifetime members on our board. We put our money into GGA =20 gladly. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote: Lyle, There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the =20 board of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no =20 journals,and furthermore no real reason for continuing to exist. What =20= is being done of any real merit with the money received from GGA =20 members? Speaking of merit...I am judging the GGA on its own.There is =20= absolutely no substance what-so-ever to this "society". After the =20 flop of the IGS I thought everyone would have learned something. =20 Apparently not. As president I hold you personally responsible for =20 the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think the GGA was =20 beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position as =20 President. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason =20= for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let =20= nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out =20 with some damn dignity. Jay "GG" Sommers From: lylepuente@optonline.net Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400 GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never =20 intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests. The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the =20 membership addressed and will continue to do so. This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge =20 and to help when we can. Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also =20 criticism freely. I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that: "Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the =20= professional herpetologist to the hobbyist." The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they =20 have no interest in or unsubscribe. All are welcome ( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... ) Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I =20 meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The =20 problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up =20 over the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my =20 inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be... "The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko =20 enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest =20 in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in =20 gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to =20 study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. =20 Furthermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in =20 gekkonids by providing a voice and means of communicating and sharing =20= of resources and ideas. " Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I =20 maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species =20 collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around =20 geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of =20 you know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's =20 misery,It is the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping =20= destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being =20 rediculous. PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance. GGA...R.I.P. Very kindest regards, Jay "GG" Sommers From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000 I would say next time to just flush it. > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800 > > Hi Sherron, > > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like. > > Hope this helps, > Melody > > Sherron wrote: > > > Aloha, Kind Friends > > > > I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But =20 sometimes you > > can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, =20= too. I > > can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become =20 apparent > > that it is hopeless. > > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile =20= floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move =20 her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot =20 traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was =20 obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped =20 for the best. > > > > By the afternoon of the next day, however, her eyes were badly =20 sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was developing black =20 blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which =20 obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 =20= hours > > since her fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If =20 there had > > been any hope ... :( > > > > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our =20 vet who > > we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here =20 in the > > islands, we don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who would even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let =20 alone > > for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't =20 find a > > neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the =20= island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking. > > > > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just =20 treat > > cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. =20 But I > > really am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who =20 really knew > > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern =20 California, > > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always =20= been a > > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to =20 start with. > > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > > automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when =20 our own > > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection =20 -- she > > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suffered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you =20 are just > > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that =20 experience > > has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet. > > > > Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is =20 illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a =20 permit > > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any =20 animal > > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there =20 were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat =20= a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally kept. > > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to =20 stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need =20 something > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my =20 husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I =20= could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like =20 this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we =20= think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could =20 chew and > > coughed her back up. > > > > > > We're sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that =20 freezing her > > was worse than the pain she was suffering. > > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing =20 would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day =20= geckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and =20= I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :( > > > > Mahalo, Sherron > > > > > > =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------=20= ---- > > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of =20 Hawaii) > > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-=20 pohaku.com > > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to =20 join you on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends now! It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites =20 through Windows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How. Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows =20 Live SkyDrive. --Boundary_(ID_bH2o5sud953nj52qBkqudA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jay,
you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you = missed all the publications.
We have put out some beautiful = editions that we are quite proud of
Joining, or volunteering = to help would would be more productive than trashing something people = have worked very hard on, without any compensation, rather paying out = our own pockets to keep things going. We have two lifetime members on = our board. We put our money into GGA = gladly.

Lyle

<= div>

Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko = Association
http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/My= BrothersBanned

On = Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote:

Lyle,
=A0
=A0 There is most = definitely a self serving interest to all on the board of the so-called = "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and furthermore no = real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of any real = merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...I am = judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ever = to this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would = have learned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you = personally responsible for the =A0inexcusable lack of leadership. If I = didn't think the GGA was beyond repair I would directly challenge you = for your position as President. The problem is it is too far gone. There = is no real reason for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do = would be to let nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let = it go out with some damn dignity.
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Jay "GG" = Sommers

From: lylepuente@optonline.net
S= ubject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Dat= e: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400

GGA has and will exist for all = who have an interest. It was never intended or will be intended for an = exclusive group of self interests.
The GGA journal and newsletter is = produced with all interests of the membership addressed and will = continue to do so.
This list is open to all, including non GGA = members free of charge and to help when we can.
Everyone is = free to post, questions, help suggestions and = also=A0criticism=A0freely.
I read the below post of our = purpose and it seems like we do just = that:

"Membership is open to = anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional = herpetologist to the hobbyist."
Lyle Puente
President
Global Gecko = Association
http://www.gekkota.org

http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com
http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:

=A0 The GGA is an = organization committed to promote interest in gekkonids in a variety of = ways, from responsible captive care, to study in the wild, conservation, = academic research and beyond. Furthermore, the GGA will serve=A0 people = who are interested in gekkonids by providing a voice and means of = communicating and sharing of resources and ideas.=A0"=A0
=A0
=A0 = Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I = maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species = collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around = geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you = know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is = the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the = interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being = rediculous.
=A0
=A0 PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue = for social = acceptance.
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= GGA...R.I.P.
=A0
=A0=A0 Very kindest = regards,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= Jay "GG" Sommers

From:=A0jacobsommers@hotmail.com
T= o:=A0gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sub= ject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
Date: Mon, 9 = Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000

=A0=A0 I would say next time to just = flush it.

> From:=A0mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> = To:=A0gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> = Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
> Date: = Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -0800
>=A0
> Hi Sherron,
>=A0
> I know a snake-keeper = that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide=A0
> chamber, because she = doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find=A0
> out more, or put you = in touch with her if you like.
>=A0
> Hope this helps,
> = Melody
>=A0
> = Sherron wrote:
>=A0
= > > Aloha, Kind Friends
> >=A0
> > I prefer to let = nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you=A0
> > can see they are in = obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I=A0
> > can't bear to see = them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent=A0
> > that it is = hopeless.
> >=A0
> = > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile = floor.=A0
> > When we = found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out=A0
> > of the way. We = placed her in a container so she would be safe from=A0
> > predators (other = geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the=A0
> > hopes she would = recover, and gave her fruit and water. It was obvious it=A0
> > hurt her to move, = but she seemed okay when still, so we hoped for the best.
> >=A0
> > By the afternoon of = the next day, however, her eyes were badly sunken,=A0
> > she had trouble = breathing, and her skin was developing black blotchy=A0
> > areas. She would = stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which obviously=A0
> > was causing her = more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours=A0
> > since her fall and = she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had=A0
> > been any hope ... = :(
> >=A0
> > If = we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet = who=A0
> > we did = trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in the=A0
> > islands, we don't = have those resources. Our real problem is finding=A0
> > someone who would = even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical=A0
> > treatment for = humans is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone=A0
> > for exotic animals. = I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a=A0
> > neurologist that = knows anything about my disease on this island. My=A0
> > husband sees a = cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island=A0
> > of Oahu. It took me = 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would=A0
> > treat my = "complicated" problems. Medical care for both people and=A0
> > animals is sadly = lacking.
> >=A0
> = > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just = treat=A0
> > cats = & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But = I=A0
> > really am = not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew=A0
> > how to take care of = "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California,=A0
> > too. Finding good = vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a=A0
> > problem -- it's = just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.
> >=A0
> > I am also no longer = convinced that a shot from just any vet is=A0
> > automatically = better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own=A0
> > vet was out of town = and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she=A0
> > suffered a lot from = it and it took her a long time to die as she=A0
> > suffered. Not all = vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that=A0
> > animals really can = suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just=A0
> > taking your = chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience=A0
> > has made me leery = of automatically trusting every vet.
> >=A0
> > Worse, after doing = some checking online, I find that it is illegal in=A0
> > Hawaii to catch = & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit=A0
> > for scientific = research) in order to discourage any trade in them=A0
> > whatsoever. It is = okay to keep the native species, but not any animal=A0
> > banned for = import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native=A0
> > populations (native = insects, in this case). So even if there were good=A0
> > gecko vets, they = would be risking their license if they to treat a day=A0
> > gecko since they = cannot be legally kept.
> >=A0
> > So right now we are = pretty much on our own. We either have to stand by=A0
> > and watch them die, = no matter how long it takes, or we need something=A0
> > else we can come up = with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband=A0
> > can "smash" them, = as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could=A0
> > unless they were = already partially crushed already ... or like this poor=A0
> > little baby we = found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants, we think=A0
> > partially eaten by = a day gecko who bit off more than it could chew and=A0
> > coughed her back = up.
> >=A0
> = >=A0
> > We're sure = she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her=A0
> > was worse than the = pain she was suffering.
> >=A0
> > I didn't know what = to do for them, but my husband felt freezing would be=A0
> > quicker and kinder = than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were=A0
> > wrong, I regret it = immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for=A0
> > mammals; I just do = not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we have=A0
> > encountered such = dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day geckos,=A0
> > it is possible this = horrible situation will come up again -- and I am=A0
> > desperate for a = better choice. Can you help? :(
> >=A0
> > Mahalo, = Sherron
> >=A0
> = >=A0
> > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of = Hawaii)
> > Homepage:=A0http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron=A0-=A0mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
= > > See our rats:=A0http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html
> = >=A0
>=A0
> = _______________________________________________
> Global Gecko = Association
>=A0http://www.gekkota.com
> Classifieds
>=A0http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list
>=A0gecko@lists.gekkota.com
>=A0http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
<= br>
Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks = to join you on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends = now!

It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook = and other social sites through Windows Live=99 Messenger.=A0Learn = How.

Enjoy 5 GB of = free, password-protected online storage.=A0Get Windows Live = SkyDrive.

= --Boundary_(ID_bH2o5sud953nj52qBkqudA)-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Tue Jun 10 17:08:41 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:08:41 +0000 Subject: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos... In-Reply-To: References: <484C6DC2.6080604@gmail.com> <484D578A.7010806@ix.netcom.com> <143A73CE-5C8D-4991-8C8E-CECE1115D64C@optonline.net> Message-ID: --_b294f72e-d75b-4c71-a972-4522fc272dc8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I prefer not to throw away money into a sinking ship. If I had a pipe leak= ing in my house from multiple fracture points I would opt to gut my whole p= lumbing system and replace with something that was not obsolete. If the GGA= were an automobile it would be a Lemon. Things have certainly turned very = sour around here I just don't think there's enough sugar to sweeten it back= up. I have seen the publications,I can say I wouldn't have missed much if = I'd missed them. Maybe if you want help from people to turn this thing arou= nd you should lead by example.The only active part of the GGA is this list = serve,and it's a joke. To try to pretend this organization is fulfilling so= me higher purpose is an insult to members intelligence. There is a big reas= on why I haven't been a member.It's pretty sad that some of the most knowle= dgeable,passionate and enthusiastic gecko keepers in the world aren't parti= cipating in The Global Gecko Association.=20 =20 I have legitimate criticisms. If there wasn't a problem my points wouldn'= t be valid. No one has been able to respond with any good reasons or excuse= s for the issues I have called you out on. Just a bunch of shuck and jive b= .s. From: lylepuente@optonline.netSubject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distres= sed Geckos...To: gecko@lists.gekkota.comDate: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:47:54 -040= 0Jay,=20 you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you missed all th= e publications. We have put out some beautiful editions that we are quite proud of Joining, or volunteering to help would would be more productive than trashi= ng something people have worked very hard on, without any compensation, rat= her paying out our own pockets to keep things going. We have two lifetime m= embers on our board. We put our money into GGA gladly. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote:Lyle, There is most definit= ely a self serving interest to all on the board of the so-called "Global Ge= cko Association". No meetings,no journals,and furthermore no real reason fo= r continuing to exist. What is being done of any real merit with the money = received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...I am judging the GGA on its = own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ever to this "society". After = the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would have learned something. Appare= ntly not. As president I hold you personally responsible for the inexcusab= le lack of leadership. If I didn't think the GGA was beyond repair I would = directly challenge you for your position as President. The problem is it is= too far gone. There is no real reason for the GGA to exist anymore. The et= hical thing to do would be to let nature take it's course and let it die. J= esus Christ,let it go out with some damn dignity. Jay "G= G" Sommers From: lylepuente@optonline.netSubject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distres= sed Geckos...To: gecko@lists.gekkota.comDate: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -040= 0GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never intended= or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests.=20 The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the member= ship addressed and will continue to do so. This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and to h= elp when we can. Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also criticism fr= eely. I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that: "Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the profe= ssional herpetologist to the hobbyist." The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they have no = interest in or unsubscribe. All are welcome ( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... ) Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify m= y last post. When I said flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been redu= ced to a pathetic joke.The problem is that the joke has no humor. My email = has been blowing up over the last week and not one post was worthy of landi= ng in my inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be... "The Global Ge= cko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membersh= ip is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional h= erpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to prom= ote interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive ca= re, to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furth= ermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by provi= ding a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas.= " Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I mai= ntain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species collections in t= he world(over 200 species). My life revolves around geckos,not one person i= n the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA = die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical thi= ng to do. You are helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is f= ar beyond being rediculous. PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue= for social acceptance. GGA...R= .I.P. Very kindest regards, Jay "GG" Sommers From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck= o]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +000= 0 I would say next time to just flush it. > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:1= 4 -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I thi= nk) a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maua= lly". I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > H= ope this helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I= prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > c= an see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > = can't bear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > = that it is hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ce= iling onto a tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we trie= d to gently move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so sh= e would be safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) an= d foot traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and = water. It was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when sti= ll, so we hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, howe= ver, her eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her ski= n was developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeat= edly for air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, = it had been about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to det= eriorate rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were s= till on the mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trus= t and who would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we = don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who wou= ld even treat geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for huma= ns is a big problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals.= I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that know= s anything about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiolog= ist who flies over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1= /2 years to find a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" pro= blems. Medical care for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > = > And it looks like the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > = cats & dogs. Those I have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > r= eally am not surprised, as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > >= how to take care of "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > = > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a >= > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with= .> > > > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > >= automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own > = > vet was out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > = > suffered a lot from it and it took her a long time to die as she > > suff= ered. Not all vets have empathy nor even seem to believe that > > animals r= eally can suffer pain. So unless you know the vet, you are just > > taking = your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that experience > > has mad= e me leery of automatically trusting every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing s= ome checking online, I find that it is illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & kee= p any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit > > for scientific researc= h) in order to discourage any trade in them > > whatsoever. It is okay to k= eep the native species, but not any animal > > banned for import/export tha= t are deemed dangerous to the native > > populations (native insects, in th= is case). So even if there were good > > gecko vets, they would be risking = their license if they to treat a day > > gecko since they cannot be legally= kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We either have to= stand by > > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need s= omething > > else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my = husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that = I could > > unless they were already partially crushed already ... or like = this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, being eaten alive by ants,= we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit off more than it could= chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're sure she was in terribl= e pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was worse than the pain she= was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband fe= lt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in= pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. I do know it is not at = all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for reptiles. Thankfully, we h= ave > > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. But knowing day ge= ckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -- and = I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(> > > > Mahalo, She= rron> > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------= -----------------> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Isl= and of Hawaii)> > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@h= ale-pohaku.com> > See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.ht= ml> > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Ass= ociation> http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-g= ekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http:/= /lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends now! It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How. Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live Sky= Drive. _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now= --_b294f72e-d75b-4c71-a972-4522fc272dc8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I prefer not to throw away money into a sin= king ship. If I had a pipe leaking in my house from multiple fracture point= s I would opt to gut my whole plumbing system and replace with something th= at was not obsolete. If the GGA were an automobile it would be a Lemon. Thi= ngs have certainly turned very sour around here I just don't think there's = enough sugar to sweeten it back up. I have seen the publications,I can say = I wouldn't have missed much if I'd missed them. Maybe if you want help from= people to turn this thing around you should lead by example.The only activ= e part of the GGA is this list serve,and it's a joke. To try to pretend thi= s organization is fulfilling some higher purpose is an insult to members in= telligence. There is a big reason why I haven't been a member.It's pretty s= ad that some of the most knowledgeable,passionate and enthusiastic gecko ke= epers in the world aren't participating in The Global Gecko Association.
I have legitimate criticisms. If there wasn't a problem my points wo= uldn't be valid. No one has been able to respond with any good reasons or e= xcuses for the issues I have called you out on. Just a bunch of shuck and j= ive b.s.

From: lylepuente@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Dis= tressed Geckos...
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 1= 7:47:54 -0400

Jay,=20
you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you missed a= ll the publications.

We have put out some beautiful editions that we are quite proud of
Joining, or volunteering to help would would be more productive than t= rashing something people have worked very hard on, without any compensation= , rather paying out our own pockets to keep things going. We have two lifet= ime members on our board. We put our money into GGA gladly.

Lyle

Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota= .org

http://ww= w.MyBrothersBanned.com

ht= tp://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote:

Lyle,

There is most definitely a self serving= interest to all on the board of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". = No meetings,no journals,and furthermore no real reason for continuing to ex= ist. What is being done of any real merit with the money received from GGA = members? Speaking of merit...I am judging the GGA on its own.There is absol= utely no substance what-so-ever to this "society". After the flop of the IG= S I thought everyone would have learned something. Apparently not. As presi= dent I hold you personally responsible for the inexcusable lack of le= adership. If I didn't think the GGA was beyond repair I would directly chal= lenge you for your position as President. The problem is it is too far gone= . There is no real reason for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing t= o do would be to let nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,l= et it go out with some damn dignity.

  &nb= sp;            =    Jay "GG" Sommers

From: lylepuente@optonline.net<= /A>
Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Dat= e: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400

GGA has and will exist for all who= have an interest. It was never intended or will be intended for an exclusi= ve group of self interests.=20
The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the m= embership addressed and will continue to do so.

This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and= to help when we can.

Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also cr= iticism freely.

I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that= :

"Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, = from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist."

The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they hav= e no interest in or unsubscribe.

All are welcome

( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... )

Lyle

Lyle Puente

President

Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota= .org

http://ww= w.MyBrothersBanned.com

ht= tp://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned

On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote:

Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said = flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.Th= e problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over = the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This is w= hat the GGA was supposed to be...

"The Global Gecko Ass= ociation (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is o= pen to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional herpetol= ogist to the hobbyist.
The GGA is an organization committed to pr= omote interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive = care, to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Fur= thermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids b= y providing a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and= ideas. "

Now before anyone gets upset.I hav= e a right to voice my opinion.I maintain one of the largest and most divers= e geckonid species collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revo= lves around geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot= of you know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It= is the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the in= terest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being rediculous.
   PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance= .

          =             &nb= sp;            =          GGA...R.I.P.

=    Very kindest regards,

    &nb= sp;            =    Jay "GG" Sommers

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for = Distressed Geckos...
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000

&= nbsp; I would say next time to just flush it.

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> Subject: Re: [gecko]...Euth= anasia for Distressed Geckos...
> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 -080= 0
>
> Hi= Sherron,
> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) a carbon-dioxide=
> chamber, be= cause she doesn't like to kill them "maually". I can find
> out more, or put you in touch= with her if you like.
>&nb= sp;
> Hope this helps,
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
>
> > Aloha, Kind = Friends
> > =
> > I prefer to let nature take its course usually, too. But some= times you
> &g= t; can see they are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I<= SPAN class=3DEC_EC_Apple-converted-space>
> > can't b= ear to see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent
> > that it is hopele= ss.
> >
= > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a tile = floor.
> > = When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently move her out
> > of the way.= We placed her in a container so she would be safe from
> > predators (other geckos, c= ats, mongoose, birds) and foot traffic, in the
> > hopes she would recover, and gave h= er fruit and water. It was obvious it
> > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when s= till, so we hoped for the best.
> >
> > By the afternoon of the next day, how= ever, her eyes were badly sunken,=
> > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was deve= loping black blotchy =
> > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for air, which o= bviously
> >= ; was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been about 18-20 hours
> > since her= fall and she had started to deteriorate rapidly. If there had
> > been any hope ...= :(
> >
= > > If we were still on the mainland, I could have taken her to our v= et who
> > = we did trust and who would have treated her properly. But here in the
> > islands, we = don't have those resources. Our real problem is finding
> > someone who would even tre= at geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical
> > treatment for humans is a big problem on= the outer islands, let alone&nbs= p;
> > for exotic animals. I have Myasthenia Gravis (MG) an= d I can't find a
= > > neurologist that knows anything about my disease on this island. = My
> > husb= and sees a cardiologist who flies over once a month from the island
> > of Oahu. It to= ok me 1-1/2 years to find a personal doctor who would
> > treat my "complicated" probl= ems. Medical care for both people and
> > animals is sadly lacking.
> >
> > And it looks= like the small number of vets here primarily just treat
> > cats & dogs. Those I = have called don't include reptiles at all. But I
> > really am not surprised, as we ha= d trouble finding a vet who really knew
> > how to take care of "exotics" like our pet= rats in southern California,&nbs= p;
> > too. Finding good vets who know more than cats &= dogs has always been a
> > problem -- it's just that here in Kona there are far fewer= to start with.
> > = ;
> > I am also no longer convinced that a shot from just a= ny vet is
> &g= t; automatically better. I took one of my rats to another vet when our own<= SPAN class=3DEC_EC_Apple-converted-space>
> > vet was= out of town and she screamed in pain from his injection -- she
> > suffered a lot fr= om it and it took her a long time to die as she
> > suffered. Not all vets have empath= y nor even seem to believe that&n= bsp;
> > animals really can suffer pain. So unless you know= the vet, you are just
> > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no choice, But that= experience
> = > has made me leery of automatically trusting every vet.
> >
> > Worse, af= ter doing some checking online, I find that it is illegal in
> > Hawaii to catch &= keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a permit
> > for scientific research) in o= rder to discourage any trade in them
> > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native spe= cies, but not any animal
> > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the= native
> >= populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there were good
> > gecko vets= , they would be risking their license if they to treat a day
> > gecko since they cann= ot be legally kept.
> >&= nbsp;
> > So right now we are pretty much on our own. We ei= ther have to stand by
> > and watch them die, no matter how long it takes, or we need = something
> &g= t; else we can come up with to make their going easier. Maybe my husband
> > can "smas= h" them, as someone else suggested. I don't know that I could
> > unless they were alr= eady partially crushed already ... or like this poor
> > little baby we found on our l= anai, being eaten alive by ants, we think
> > partially eaten by a day gecko who bit o= ff more than it could chew and&nb= sp;
> > coughed her back up.
> >
> >
> > We're sure she was in terrible = pain -- I can't believe that freezing her
> > was worse than the pain she was sufferin= g.
> >
&= gt; > I didn't know what to do for them, but my husband felt freezing wo= uld be
> > = quicker and kinder than letting them slowly die in pain. If we were
> > wrong, I regre= t it immensely. I do know it is not at all kind for
> > mammals; I just do not know fo= r reptiles. Thankfully, we have&n= bsp;
> > encountered such dreadful conditions only twice. B= ut knowing day geckos,
> > it is possible this horrible situation will come up again -= - and I am
> &= gt; desperate for a better choice. Can you help? :(
> >
> > Mahalo, Sherron> >
> = >
> > --= --------------------------------------------------------------------------<= BR>> > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of H= awaii)
> > Homepage: <= /SPAN>http://hal= e-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
> > See our r= ats: http://hale-pohaku.c= om/dennis/ratgallery.html
> >
>&nb= sp;
> _______________________________________________
> = Global Gecko Association
>&nbs= p;http://www.gek= kota.com
> Classifieds
> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi=
> gecko mailing list
>&= nbsp;gecko@lists.gekkota.= com
> http:/= /lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join yo= u on Windows Live=99 Messenger.Invite friends now!=

It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How.

Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live SkyDrive.

=
Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you= on Windows Live=99 Messenger. Add them now! = --_b294f72e-d75b-4c71-a972-4522fc272dc8_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 14:50:36 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (tony gamble) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gecko]New Jersey girl wins gecko-naming contest In-Reply-To: <0569F0F7-89FB-439B-B47A-0473402388A6@optonline.net> Message-ID: <1083.43490.qm@web52709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --0-217056077-1213365036=:43490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here's a cute story about the winner of the recent gecko-naming contest involving Aaron Bauer: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/education/20080531_Hi-Nella_girl_wins_gecko-naming_contest.html Tony --0-217056077-1213365036=:43490 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Here's a cute story about the winner of the recent gecko-naming contest involving Aaron Bauer:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/education/20080531_Hi-Nella_girl_wins_gecko-naming_contest.html
Tony

--0-217056077-1213365036=:43490-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 16:31:42 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:31:42 -0400 Subject: [gecko]New Jersey girl wins gecko-naming contest In-Reply-To: <1083.43490.qm@web52709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA9B81B6AE391E-AA8-769@webmail-ne12.sysops.aol.com> ----------MB_8CA9B81B6F5C022_AA8_E95_webmail-ne12.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey thanks, Tony, for keeping the List in mind.? What a great story! Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: tony gamble To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 6:50 am Subject: [gecko]New Jersey girl wins gecko-naming contest Here's a cute story about the winner of the recent gecko-naming contest involving Aaron Bauer: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/education/20080531_Hi-Nella_girl_wins_gecko-naming_contest.html Tony ----------MB_8CA9B81B6F5C022_AA8_E95_webmail-ne12.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hey thanks, Tony, for keeping the List in mind. What a great story!

Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: tony gamble <gymnodactylus098@yahoo.com>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 6:50 am
Subject: [gecko]New Jersey girl wins gecko-naming contest

Here's a cute story about the winner of the recent gecko-naming contest involving Aaron Bauer:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/education/20080531_Hi-Nella_girl_wins_gecko-naming_contest.html
Tony

Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more!
----------MB_8CA9B81B6F5C022_AA8_E95_webmail-ne12.sysops.aol.com-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 18:18:13 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:18:13 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Hi Sherron, How's Li'i doing? BTW don't let one cranky person scare you off, the rest of us were having a good time talking about geckos and stuff ;-) Melody Sherron wrote: > Aloha, Melody > > Thanks for the info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will > see if Sunshine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;) > > We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many > problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a > little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all > those fruit flies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her > down -- we are afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is > really fast! She is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- > she knows the drill now, and all the tricks to get away. > > Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I > try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving target! > > And now she is doing something else that has us worried -- she keeps > opening her mouth really wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so > I don't know if she is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we > could hear her if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we > aren't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried > so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it > moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed some light on > the gaping. > I know some animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional > distress, but I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt > her if we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? > Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat > at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning. > > Or is the little stinker smarter than us and has just gotten us figured > out already and knows what buttons to push? ;) > > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town, either. And we lived > about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was > North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was > a great place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always > loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anything > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wild. ;) > > Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for the berries! > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My > best friend and I drove from Southern California up through Oregon to > where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the > way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;) > > Thanks, > Sherron > > Melody Hartley wrote: > >> Hi Sharron, >> >> I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com. >> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and >> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of >> someone near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also >> getting a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's >> pretty easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I >> think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your >> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you >> don't need the kind with D3 in it. >> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're in >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealworm customers >> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth and I recommended >> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-) >> >> You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting >> tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet! >> Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if >> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling >> on the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second >> person holding the gecko. >> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton and >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs together here now >> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name too ;-D >> >> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't >> ship them to Oregon though, LOL! >> >> Best of luck! >> Melody >> >> Gecko wrote: >> >>> Aloha, Melody >>> >>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to >>> google for them and see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to >>> have an import license to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the >>> geckos! Right now, we are having problems finding someone to ship >>> quickly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good >>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the >>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import license is $50 >>> a year for unlimited shipments -- and they all go through Honolulu >>> for inspection! If flightless fruit flies are on the list, they would >>> cost the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is >>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! Pretty neat, though! >>> >>> Yes, I would be interested in your source for the flies. I can always >>> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss >>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, thank goodness! >>> I can sometimes now just hold them with my fingers and clip them! >>> Much easier! ;) >>> >>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. >>> And it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to >>> get it off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her >>> tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always >>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!! >>> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved >>> away to England for a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real >>> familiar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, >>> but I sure like the name! ;) >>> >>> Mahalo, >>> Sherron >>> >>> Melody Hartley wrote: >>> >>>> Aloha Sharron, >>>> >>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to >>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know you can >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier. I do that >>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos >>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one >>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from the >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I can give >>>> you more info if you're interested. >>>> >>>> Do you have the little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any >>>> other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go >>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL! >>>> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lose the extra skin on >>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail skin off by peeling front >>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out. >>>> >>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although >>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" >>>> -- ah-LO-ah. >>>> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-) >>>> >>>> Melody >>>> >>>> Gecko wrote: >>>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but that >>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper >>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better. >>>>> >>>>> Now that she is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf >>>>> with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on >>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana leaf and we >>>>> have tons of them. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out >>>>> on. And all the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the >>>>> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and >>>>> house. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Mahalo, >>>>> Sherron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a >>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full >>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose. >>>>>> >>>>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber near a >>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin >>>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another idea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a >>>>>>> section of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle >>>>>>> up against to assist in the shed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right leg work more efficiently! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keep us posted! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos >>>>>>> roamed freely ;-] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest >>>>>>> day gecko >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning gecko >>>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften >>>>>>> enough to >>>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >>>>>>> neck >>>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right >>>>>>> leg, and >>>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>>>> clumped >>>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg together >>>>>>> as a >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with the joint, too. >>>>>>> Although >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of that may just >>>>>>> be the >>>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it >>>>>>> has only >>>>>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >>>>>>> lead, and >>>>>>> the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, >>>>>>> though, >>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching >>>>>>> her body >>>>>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>>>> encased in >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And she is >>>>>>> green underneath, not gray! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as >>>>>>> they run >>>>>>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>>>> house - >>>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). >>>>>>> But we >>>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they >>>>>>> have a >>>>>>> better chance of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running >>>>>>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to >>>>>>> them first. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >>>>>>>> home >>>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >>>>>>>> know how >>>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at >>>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic container >>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a light. Almost >>>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perhaps >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her neck gently with a >>>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a >>>>>>>> new pet >>>>>>>> here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the >>>>>>>> rest of >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from >>>>>>>> being very >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs & >>>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in >>>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm >>>>>>>> her up. >>>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>>>> has a >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff >>>>>>>> around >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>>>> little girl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Gecko >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko >>>>>>> having trouble shedding ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is the smallest day >>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften enough >>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get the >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting >>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough. >>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, >>>>>>> and her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of >>>>>>> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg >>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wrong with the >>>>>>> joint, too. Although in watching her with the skin problem, some >>>>>>> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her >>>>>>> movement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has >>>>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has >>>>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use >>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil >>>>>>> lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, >>>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started >>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her >>>>>>> body back and forth because her little arms & legs are still >>>>>>> encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back. >>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they >>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus >>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take the hatchlings >>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of survival -- we have lots >>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't >>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a >>>>>>>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water >>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours >>>>>>>> or so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her >>>>>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new >>>>>>>> pet here? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin" >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron) >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated and has a >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the rest >>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being >>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eating tiny bugs >>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest >>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she has >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her >>>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she >>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don't >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin except >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be another >>>>>>>> matter. :( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky >>>>>>>> little girl. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l l >>>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^ >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll >>>>>>>> \\\ l l llll /// >>>>>>>> l l llll \\\ >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll /// >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ >>>>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>>>> ( ) ( >>>>>>>> ) ( ) >>>>>>>> lappert(a) robert(a) >>>>>>>> hubert(a) >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo >>>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p. >>>>>>>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ************** >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >>>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food. >>>>>>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of >>>>>>> Hawaii) >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com >>>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Global Gecko Association >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com >>>>>> Classifieds >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>>>>> gecko mailing list >>>>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Global Gecko Association >>>> http://www.gekkota.com >>>> Classifieds >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >>>> gecko mailing list >>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >>>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Global Gecko Association >> http://www.gekkota.com >> Classifieds >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi >> gecko mailing list >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko >> > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 19:54:53 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:54:53 +0000 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: --_50bac4f0-cdb6-4afb-945a-bb9717f7c7ca_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Melody, =20 If you have something to say to me say it directly to me. Don't be a pass= ive aggressive bitch. I have seen no talk about geckos here.I have seen a l= ot of overly sympathetic drama laden crap. No real exchange of legitimate i= nformation.The only people other than me and 1 or two others who participat= e in this train wreck of a "society's" list serve are clearly a bunch of so= cial rejects who all wallow in each others thirst for acceptance from their= fellow human beans. Sorry to be such a cranky dick but I figured you'd bee= n away from dick so long I'd just thrust one into your peaceful "passive" = life. If you all want to actually get out of the cyber world and interact f= ace to face with REAL GECKO PEOPLE I might suggest you all attend the Repti= le SUpershow in a couple of weeks.There will be a fantastic talk on geckos = with at least 100 species photographed. Also the biggest gecko keepers in t= he world will be in attendance (ahem...me!!)And The Great JON BOONE!!Yipee!= !You know the guy who pretty much built this dam sight with just his pics a= lone!! Hope to see you all there.My heart will be singing for all of you.Yo= u should hear it it really is quite melodious ! www.reptilesupershow.com=20 =20 Anyone heard about the next gecko night? The next GECKO? Christ even the g= odam President of this pathetic joke doesn't do shit with geckos,never real= ly did. I guess I should just be banned like his brother. I said it before = nothing here but a bunch of overly-complimentary back patting bullshit. =20 You have made the GECKO GODS ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to fix things = by tossing out a sacrificial lamb. Just sacrifice the whole GGA it's pretty= much the same thing as a virgin...an untouched unloved waste of time. =20 Get a life. =20 Peace be with you, =20 Jay "GG" Sommers > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:18:13 -0800> > Hi = Sherron,> > How's Li'i doing?> > BTW don't let one cranky person scare you = off, the rest of us were > having a good time talking about geckos and stuf= f ;-)> > Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Melody> > > > Thanks for the = info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will > > see if Sunshin= e will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)> > > > We are = trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many > > problems!= We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a > > little terr= or!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all > > those fruit fl= ies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her > > down -- we ar= e afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is > > really fast! S= he is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- > > she knows the dr= ill now, and all the tricks to get away.> > > > Dennis tries to wet her ski= n and get a grip with the tweezers while I > > try to keep her from leaping= off his lap. But she is a real moving target!> > > > And now she is doing = something else that has us worried -- she keeps > > opening her mouth reall= y wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so > > I don't know if she is= gasping for air or not, but I don't think we > > could hear her if she was= . I know she hates what we are doing, but we > > aren't sure if she is real= ly in distress or not. My husband got worried > > so we put her back in the= steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it > > moved only a tiny bit),= but I wondered if you could shed some light on > > the gaping.> > I know s= ome animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional > > distress, but = I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt > > her if we co= ntinue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? > > Or could the= re really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > > noticed befo= re? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat > > at least a c= ouple of fruit flies earlier this morning.> > > > Or is the little stinker = smarter than us and has just gotten us figured > > out already and knows wh= at buttons to push? ;)> > > > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town= , either. And we lived > > about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest= "big" town to us was > > North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of= Oregon, though. It was > > a great place to grow up, especially for a tomb= oy like me. I always > > loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet = frogs, salamanders, > > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads= , chipmunks, anything > > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor = mom wild. ;)> > > > Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for t= he berries! > > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries = .. yumm! My > > best friend and I drove from Southern California up through= Oregon to > > where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberri= es along the > > way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)> > > > Tha= nks,> > Sherron> > > > Melody Hartley wrote:> > > >> Hi Sharron,> >>> >> I = get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.> >> They'= re near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and> >> Dave -= - nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of> >> someone = near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also> >> getting = a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's> >> pretty = easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I> >> think the= y sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your> >> gecko gets U= VB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you> >> don't need t= he kind with D3 in it.> >>> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and = I agree. They're in> >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new m= ealworm customers> >> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth a= nd I recommended> >> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-)> >>> >>= You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting> >> = tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!> >> Ge= ckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if> >> you= can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling> >> on= the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second> >> person= holding the gecko.> >>> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, betwe= en Beaverton and> >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs = together here now> >> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name = too ;-D> >>> >> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sur= e you can't> >> ship them to Oregon though, LOL!> >>> >> Best of luck!> >> = Melody> >>> >> Gecko wrote:> >>> >>> Aloha, Melody> >>>> >>> Flightless fru= it flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to > >>> google for them an= d see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to > >>> have an import license= to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the > >>> geckos! Right now, we ar= e having problems finding someone to ship > >>> quickly enough in the summe= r, even with the license. We need a good > >>> supplier that ships from som= ewhere near the west coast as all the > >>> places I know are mid or east c= oast. A mealworm import license is $50 > >>> a year for unlimited shipments= -- and they all go through Honolulu > >>> for inspection! If flightless fr= uit flies are on the list, they would > >>> cost the same. Hawaii actually = has a great endemic fruit fly that is > >>> huge -- about the size of a sma= ll house fly. Too big for our little > >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the= size of her head! Pretty neat, though!> >>>> >>> Yes, I would be intereste= d in your source for the flies. I can always > >>> ask them if they ship he= re. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss > >>> army knife, so my job has= become easier and faster, thank goodness! > >>> I can sometimes now just h= old them with my fingers and clip them! > >>> Much easier! ;)> >>>> >>> We = are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. > >>> And = it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to > >>> get i= t off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her > >>> tail. N= ot that she liked the rest of it, but that part always > >>> bothered her t= he most and she would take off like a bolt!!> >>>> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot = as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved > >>> away to England for= a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real > >>> familiar with where = places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, > >>> but I sure like the = name! ;)> >>>> >>> Mahalo,> >>> Sherron> >>>> >>> Melody Hartley wrote:> >>= >> >>>> Aloha Sharron,> >>>>> >>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This = little one is so lucky to > >>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have be= en someone's lunch > >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you= know you can > >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier.= I do that > >>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatch= ling geckos > >>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, o= r get one > >>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate= from the > >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I ca= n give > >>>> you more info if you're interested.> >>>>> >>>> Do you have t= he little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any > >>>> other tiny bug= s you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go > >>>> blind clipping = fruit fly wings, LOL!> >>>>> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she migh= t lose the extra skin on > >>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail sk= in off by peeling front > >>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out.> >>= >>> >>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although > >>>>= pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" > >>>> = -- ah-LO-ah.> >>>>> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;= -)> >>>>> >>>> Melody> >>>>> >>>> Gecko wrote:> >>>>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody> = >>>>>> >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but t= hat > >>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;)> >>>>= >> >>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper > >= >>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.> >>>>>> >>>>> Now that s= he is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf > >>>>> with red ti,= honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on > >>>>> paper towels, b= ut she really seems to like the banana leaf and we > >>>>> have tons of the= m. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out > >>>>> on. And all the d= ay geckos like the helekonia -- that and the > >>>>> bananas are their favo= rite hangouts ... along with our lanai and > >>>>> house. ;)> >>>>>> >>>>> = Mahalo,> >>>>> Sherron> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:> >= >>>>> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a= > >>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink ful= l > >>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be = > >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose.> >>>>>>> >>= >>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~> >>= >>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber n= ear a > >>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wru= ng > >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >= >>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin > >= >>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another id= ea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a > >>>>>>> section of cho= ya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle > >>>>>>> up against to = assist in the shed.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right = leg work more efficiently!> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Keep us posted!> >>>>>>> > >>= >>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos > >>>= >>>> roamed freely ;-]> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha= , Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is= the smallest > >>>>>>> day gecko> >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, alt= hough some of our mourning gecko> >>>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier.> >>>>= >>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften > >>>>= >>> enough to> >>>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we coul= d get the > >>>>>>> neck> >>>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little= cage and putting a> >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a = little and wasn't> >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.> >>>>>>> Sh= e has never seemed to be able to fully control her right > >>>>>>> leg, and= > >>>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>= >>>>> clumped> >>>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg = together > >>>>>>> as a> >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with= the joint, too. > >>>>>>> Although> >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin = problem, some of that may just > >>>>>>> be the> >>>>>>> skin being so tigh= t it restricts her movement.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hat= chlings, most of that first skin has> >>>>>>> already been shed, but she wa= s fully covered with it and it > >>>>>>> has only> >>>>>>> recently started= splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > >>>>>>> her> >>>>>>> limbs = -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>>> lead, and> >>>= >>>> the skin seems to fully coat those.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doi= ng okay up until the last couple of days, > >>>>>>> though,> >>>>>>> when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started> >>>>>>> really = becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching > >>>>>>> her body> >>>= >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>>> enca= sed in> >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And sh= e is> >>>>>>> green underneath, not gray!> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever= actually kept any of the geckos before, as > >>>>>>> they run> >>>>>>> all= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>>> house ->= >>>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). > >>= >>>>> But we> >>>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she could= n't fend > >>>>>>> for> >>>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchling= s outside so they > >>>>>>> have a> >>>>>>> better chance of survival -- we= have lots of big geckos running> >>>>>>> around inside and they don't last= long if we don't get to > >>>>>>> them first. :(> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo,= Sherron> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eli= zabethFreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~> >>>>>>>>> >>= >>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at > >>>>>>= >> home> >>>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't= > >>>>>>>> know how> >>>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geck= os are 1" 3/8" at> >>>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented pl= astic container> >>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a l= ight. Almost> >>>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulat= e on the> >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perh= aps > >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her ne= ck gently with a> >>>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> = What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a > >>>>>>>> new pet= > >>>>>>>> here?> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[g= ecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having> >>>>>>>>> trouble sh= edding "egg skin"> >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time> = >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)> >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-adm= in@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>= >> > >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com>= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little>= >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have > >>>= >>>>> when> >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated a= nd has a> >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.> >>>>>>>>> >>= >>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the > >>>>>>>= > rest of> >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from= > >>>>>>>> being very> >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well= eating tiny bugs &> >>>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown = a real interest in> >>>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't= think she has> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But = she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &> >>>>>>>> clammy, = so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm > >>>>>>>> her up.> >>>>= >>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > >>>>>>>= > has a> >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.> >>>>= >>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >= >>>>>>>> don't> >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of t= he skin except> >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but th= e stuff > >>>>>>>> around> >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a rin= g, so it may be another> >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help w= ould be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky> >>>>>>>> little girl= .> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> >>>>>>> Fro= m: Gecko > >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>= >> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on = hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko > >>>>>>> having trouble shedding ...> >>>>>>= >> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose t= o vent -- she is the smallest day > >>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever se= en, although some of our mourning > >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinie= r.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just softe= n enough > >>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could= get the > >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and = putting > >>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little an= d wasn't > >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.> >>>>>>> She has ne= ver seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, > >>>>>>> and her rig= ht foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>>>>>> clumped tog= ether. She often tends to move the joint and leg > >>>>>>> together as a un= it, so there may be something wrong with the > >>>>>>> joint, too. Although= in watching her with the skin problem, some > >>>>>>> of that may just be = the skin being so tight it restricts her > >>>>>>> movement.> >>>>>>>> >>>>= >>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > >>>>= >>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has > >>>>>= >> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use > >>>>>>= > of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>>>= lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has be= en doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > >>>>>>> when the = skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > >>>>>>> really be= coming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her > >>>>>>> body back a= nd forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>>> encased in the = skin, although it has come off some of the back. > >>>>>>> And she is green= underneath, not gray!> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any = of the geckos before, as they > >>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and= garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mou= rning - Lepidodactylus > >>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception= in her case, since she > >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we jus= t take the hatchlings > >>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of sur= vival -- we have lots > >>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and the= y don't last long if > >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(> >>>>>>>> >>>= >>>> Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~> = >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos= at > >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don= 't > >>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1= " > >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >= >>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a > >>>>>= >>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water > >>>>>>>> acc= umulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours > >>>>>>>> or = so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her > >>>>>>>> neck = gently with a tweezers or small scissors.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the p= roblem with her right leg? Might you have a new > >>>>>>>> pet here?> >>>>>= >>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchl= ing Gold Dust Day Gecko having > >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"> >>>= >>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time> >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.= hale@gmail.com (Sherron)> >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com> = >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a ti= ny hatchling on May 13 that was a little > >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was = still in that grayish skin they have when > >>>>>>>> they first come out of= the shell. She was dehydrated and has a > >>>>>>>> problem with her right = leg, but is spunky.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the rest > >>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her ba= d leg has kept her from being > >>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doin= g pretty well eating tiny bugs > >>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She h= as also shown a real interest > >>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papa= ya, but I don't think she has > >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.> >>>>>>>= >> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > = >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her > >= >>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > = >>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.> >>>>>>>= >> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don'= t > >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin excep= t > >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff arou= nd > >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be anothe= r > >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appre= ciated as she is really a spunky > >>>>>>>> little girl.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>= > Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sin= g (and dance)~~~> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l l > >>>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ > = >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^> >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll > >>>>>>>> \\\ l l llll ///> >>>>= >>>> l l llll \\\> >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///> >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~>= >>>>>>>> ) ( )> >>>>>>>> ( ) (> >>>>>>>> ) ( )> >>>>>>>> lappert(a) robert= (a) > >>>>>>>> hubert(a)> >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo > >>>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.> >>>>>= >>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> **************> >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing= burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > >>>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food.> >>>>= >>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod0003000000= 0002) > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------- > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawa= ii (on the Big Island of > >>>>>>> Hawaii)> >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-p= ohaku.com/sherron - > >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com> >>>>>>> See our= rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----= -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>= >>>> >>>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >= >>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >= >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>= >> Global Gecko Association> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com> >>>>>> Classifi= eds> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> >>>>>> geck= o mailing list> >>>>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota= .com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ____________________= ___________________________> >>>> Global Gecko Association> >>>> http://www= .gekkota.com> >>>> Classifieds> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/cla= ssifieds.cgi> >>>> gecko mailing list> >>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>> h= ttp://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _____= __________________________________________> >> Global Gecko Association> >>= http://www.gekkota.com> >> Classifieds> >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekk= ota/classifieds.cgi> >> gecko mailing list> >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >> = http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>> > > > ________________= _______________________________> Global Gecko Association> http://www.gekko= ta.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> ge= cko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman= /listinfo/gecko _________________________________________________________________ It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn how. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_LearnHow= --_50bac4f0-cdb6-4afb-945a-bb9717f7c7ca_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Melody,

If you have something to say to me say it directly to me. Don't be a= passive aggressive bitch. I have seen no talk about geckos here.I have see= n a lot of overly sympathetic drama laden crap. No real exchange of legitim= ate information.The only people other than me and 1 or two others who parti= cipate in this train wreck of a "society's" list serve are clearly a bunch = of social rejects who all wallow in each others thirst for acceptance from = their fellow human beans. Sorry to be such a cranky dick but I figured you'= d been away from dick so long I'd just thrust one into your peaceful = "passive" life. If you all want to actually get out of the cyber world and = interact face to face with REAL GECKO PEOPLE I might suggest you all attend= the Reptile SUpershow in a couple of weeks.There will be a fantastic talk = on geckos with at least 100 species photographed. Also the biggest gecko ke= epers in the world will be in attendance (ahem...me!!)And The Great JON BOO= NE!!Yipee!!You know the guy who pretty much built this dam sight with just = his pics alone!! Hope to see you all there.My heart will be singing for all= of you.You should hear it it really is quite melodious ! www.reptilesupershow.com

Anyone heard about the next gecko night? The next GECKO? Christ even = the godam President of this pathetic joke doesn't do shit with geckos,never= really did. I guess I should just be banned like his brother. I said it be= fore nothing here but a bunch of overly-complimentary back patting bullshit= .

You have made the GECKO GODS ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to fix th= ings by tossing out a sacrificial lamb. Just sacrifice the whole GGA it's p= retty much the same thing as a virgin...an untouched unloved waste of time.=

    Get a life.

        Peace be with you,

            &nb= sp;            =           Jay "GG" Sommers
=

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
&g= t; Subject: Re: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 20= 08 09:18:13 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
> How's Li'i = doing?
>
> BTW don't let one cranky person scare you off, the = rest of us were
> having a good time talking about geckos and stuff = ;-)
>
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
>
>= ; > Aloha, Melody
> >
> > Thanks for the info on Ed's= , I will see if they can ship to me. Or will
> > see if Sunshine = will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)
> > > > We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so = many
> > problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, but = now she is a
> > little terror!! She is faster than a speeding bu= llet -- must be all
> > those fruit flies she is eating! We don't= know how to actually hold her
> > down -- we are afraid we will = break her, as she is so tiny and she is
> > really fast! She is o= nly holding still for a fraction of a second --
> > she knows the= drill now, and all the tricks to get away.
> >
> > Denn= is tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I
> = > try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving tar= get!
> >
> > And now she is doing something else that ha= s us worried -- she keeps
> > opening her mouth really wild and g= aping. She doesn't make any noise so
> > I don't know if she is g= asping for air or not, but I don't think we
> > could hear her if= she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we
> > aren't s= ure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried
> &g= t; so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it=
> > moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed som= e light on
> > the gaping.
> > I know some animals, like= birds, can actually die from emotional
> > distress, but I don't= think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt
> > her if we= continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress?
> >= Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > > noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch a= nd eat
> > at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morning.=
> >
> > Or is the little stinker smarter than us and ha= s just gotten us figured
> > out already and knows what buttons t= o push? ;)
> >
> > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much o= f a town, either. And we lived
> > about 10 miles outside of it a= nyway. The closest "big" town to us was
> > North Bend/Coos Bay. = I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was
> > a great p= lace to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always
> > lo= ved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders,
>= ; > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, anyt= hing
> > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom wil= d. ;)
> >
> > Oh and the berries! There is no place like= Oregon for the berries!
> > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbl= eberries, blackberries .. yumm! My
> > best friend and I drove fr= om Southern California up through Oregon to
> > where we lived ab= out 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the
> > way e= very place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)
> >
> > Thank= s,
> > Sherron
> >
> > Melody Hartley wrote:> >
> >> Hi Sharron,
> >>
> >> = I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.
>= >> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin= and
> >> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii the= y might know of
> >> someone near you who keeps dart frogs and = would help. I'd suggest also
> >> getting a bag of their fruit = fly medium so you can raise your own. It's
> >> pretty easy, an= d I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I
> >> thin= k they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your
> >= ;> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) yo= u
> >> don't need the kind with D3 in it.
> >>
&= gt; >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They're i= n
> >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new mealwo= rm customers
> >> for a while, but you might tell them that Eli= zabeth and I recommended
> >> them and maybe that will make a d= ifference ;-)
> >>
> >> You mentioned that you thou= ght the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting
> >> tighter. She is= probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!
> >> Geck= os store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if
> &= gt;> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pul= ling
> >> on the edge closest to her body. This probably would = need a second
> >> person holding the gecko.
> >>> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beaverton= and
> >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs= together here now
> >> and it never was much of a town. But I = like the name too ;-D
> >>
> >> My geckos would lov= e some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't
> >> ship t= hem to Oregon though, LOL!
> >>
> >> Best of luck!<= BR>> >> Melody
> >>
> >> Gecko wrote:
&= gt; >>
> >>> Aloha, Melody
> >>>
>= ; >>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will hav= e to
> >>> google for them and see if I can get them into H= awaii! I have to
> >>> have an import license to have mealw= orms shipped to me to feed the
> >>> geckos! Right now, we = are having problems finding someone to ship
> >>> quickly e= nough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good
> >>= ;> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the > >>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm import l= icense is $50
> >>> a year for unlimited shipments -- and t= hey all go through Honolulu
> >>> for inspection! If flight= less fruit flies are on the list, they would
> >>> cost the= same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is
> >&= gt;> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our little=
> >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her head! P= retty neat, though!
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I would = be interested in your source for the flies. I can always
> >>&= gt; ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss > >>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, than= k goodness!
> >>> I can sometimes now just hold them with m= y fingers and clip them!
> >>> Much easier! ;)
> >= >>
> >>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry that i= t is too tight on her.
> >>> And it seems to make her tail = less flexible. But we dread trying to
> >>> get it off, as = she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her
> >>> t= ail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always
> >&= gt;> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!!
> = >>>
> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in Oreg= on in Myrtle Point! We moved
> >>> away to England for a ye= ar when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real
> >>> familiar = with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon,
> >&g= t;> but I sure like the name! ;)
> >>>
> >>&g= t; Mahalo,
> >>> Sherron
> >>>
> >&g= t;> Melody Hartley wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> = Aloha Sharron,
> >>>>
> >>>> You are so= patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to
> >>&g= t;> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch
>= ; >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you know y= ou can
> >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that migh= t be easier. I do that
> >>>> because I keep a few dart = frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos
> >>>> too. Y= ou'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one
> >&g= t;>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate from = the
> >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessi= ve gene. I can give
> >>>> you more info if you're inter= ested.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have the li= ttle bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any
> >>>> = other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go
>= >>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL!
> >>>= >
> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she might lo= se the extra skin on
> >>>> the next shed. I've only got= ten the tail skin off by peeling front
> >>>> to back, l= ike turning a cone inside out.
> >>>>
> >>>= ;> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although
> = >>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a = soft "h"
> >>>> -- ah-LO-ah.
> >>>>> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;-)=
> >>>>
> >>>> Melody
> >>&= gt;>
> >>>> Gecko wrote:
> >>>>
&= gt; >>>>> Aloha, Melody
> >>>>>
>= >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbru= sh, but that
> >>>>> would be softer and probably hol= d the moisture better. ;)
> >>>>>
> >>>= >> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper > >>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now that she is bac= k in her regular house, she is on banana leaf
> >>>>>= with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on
> &= gt;>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the banana l= eaf and we
> >>>>> have tons of them. And the red ti = is her favorite for hanging out
> >>>>> on. And all t= he day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the
> >>>>&= gt; bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and
&g= t; >>>>> house. ;)
> >>>>>
> >= >>>> Mahalo,
> >>>>> Sherron
> >&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
> >>>>&= gt;
> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a p= aper towel rather than a
> >>>>>> washcloth in the= humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full
> >>>>= ;>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be <= BR>> >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and worki= ng it loose.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>&= gt; elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
> = >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~
> >>>>&g= t;>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for these details. = Please try the humidity chamber near a
> >>>>>>>= ; lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung
> &g= t;>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic containe= r. Watch the
> >>>>>>> water droplets form. Aft= er only a few hours I imagine her skin
> >>>>>>>= ; might be loose enough to start a split.
> >>>>>>&= gt;
> >>>>>>> Another idea! Have something like = a twig, small branch, or a
> >>>>>>> section of= choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle
> >>>= ;>>>> up against to assist in the shed.
> >>>>= ;>>>
> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed hel= ps her right leg work more efficiently!
> >>>>>>>= ;
> >>>>>>> Keep us posted!
> >>>= ;>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wish I lived near t= he beach in a place warm enough where geckos
> >>>>>&= gt;> roamed freely ;-]
> >>>>>>>
> >= ;>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
> >>>>= ;>>>
> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from n= ose to vent -- she is the smallest
> >>>>>>> da= y gecko
> >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, a= lthough some of our mourning gecko
> >>>>>>> hat= chlings are even tinier.
> >>>>>>>
> >&= gt;>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just so= ften
> >>>>>>> enough to
> >>>&g= t;>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get th= e
> >>>>>>> neck
> >>>>>&g= t;> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a
>= >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a= little and wasn't
> >>>>>>> keeping the humidit= y up high enough.
> >>>>>>> She has never seemed= to be able to fully control her right
> >>>>>>>= ; leg, and
> >>>>>>> her right foot is smaller t= han her left and the toes kind of
> >>>>>>> clu= mped
> >>>>>>> together. She often tends to move= the joint and leg together
> >>>>>>> as a
&= gt; >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with= the joint, too.
> >>>>>>> Although
> >= ;>>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some of th= at may just
> >>>>>>> be the
> >>&g= t;>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement.
> &= gt;>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Usually wh= en we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has
> >>>= >>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and i= t
> >>>>>>> has only
> >>>>&g= t;>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > >>>>>>> her
> >>>>>>>= ; limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil
> >>= ;>>>>> lead, and
> >>>>>>> the sk= in seems to fully coat those.
> >>>>>>>
> = >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last coup= le of days,
> >>>>>>> though,
> >>&= gt;>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too= ) started
> >>>>>>> really becoming a problem. S= he now gets around by lurching
> >>>>>>> her bo= dy
> >>>>>>> back and forth because her little a= rms & legs are still
> >>>>>>> encased in> >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some= of the back. And she is
> >>>>>>> green underne= ath, not gray!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>= ;>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as > >>>>>>> they run
> >>>>>&g= t;> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,
>= >>>>>>> house -
> >>>>>>> = Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris).
> = >>>>>>> But we
> >>>>>>> ha= d to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend
> >&g= t;>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> herself. Us= ually we just take the hatchlings outside so they
> >>>>= >>> have a
> >>>>>>> better chance of s= urvival -- we have lots of big geckos running
> >>>>>&= gt;> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to
> = >>>>>>> them first. :(
> >>>>>>= ;>
> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
> >>= >>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>&g= t;>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>= ;>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>= ;>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
> = >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> T= ry the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at
> >>= ;>>>>>> home
> >>>>>>>> bec= ause my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't
> >>>= ;>>>>> know how
> >>>>>>>> big= this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at
> >>= >>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plast= ic container
> >>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth= inside. Place this near a light. Almost
> >>>>>>&g= t;> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the
>= >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few h= ours or so perhaps
> >>>>>>>> you
> &g= t;>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her = neck gently with a
> >>>>>>>> tweezers or sma= ll scissors.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>&= gt;>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have = a
> >>>>>>>> new pet
> >>>>= ;>>>> here?
> >>>>>>>>
> &g= t;>>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>>>&g= t;>
> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on= hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
> >>>>>>>&= gt;> trouble shedding "egg skin"
> >>>>>>>>= ;> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >>>>= >>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
> >>&= gt;>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
> &= gt;>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
&= gt; >>>>>>>>> <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com= >
> >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.c= om
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>= ;>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little
>= >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that gray= ish skin they have
> >>>>>>>> when
> &= gt;>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was d= ehydrated and has a
> >>>>>>>> problem with h= er right leg, but is spunky.
> >>>>>>>>
&g= t; >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her out= side like we do the
> >>>>>>>> rest of
&g= t; >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg h= as kept her from
> >>>>>>>> being very
&g= t; >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty w= ell eating tiny bugs &
> >>>>>>>> aphids = I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in
> >>&g= t;>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think= she has
> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.=
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&= gt;> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &> >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near= her cage to help warm
> >>>>>>>> her up.> >>>>>>>> It seems to have started her molting= her "egg skin", but she
> >>>>>>>> has a> >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she= can't get off.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>&g= t;>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so t= iny we
> >>>>>>>> don't
> >>>= >>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the sk= in except
> >>>>>>>> for around her neck shou= ld slough off okay, but the stuff
> >>>>>>>>= around
> >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers= and is a ring, so it may be another
> >>>>>>>&g= t; matter. :(
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>= >>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really= a spunky
> >>>>>>>> little girl.
> >= ;>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Maha= lo, Sherron
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>&= gt;>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>&g= t;>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>= ;>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>= >> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> Fr= om: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>= To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>>>>> Sent: Mon= , 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ge= cko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko
> >>>>>= >> having trouble shedding ...
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
> >>>&g= t;>>>
> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from = nose to vent -- she is the smallest day
> >>>>>>&g= t; gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning
>= ; >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier.
> &g= t;>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This sounds= like it might work! If it would just soften enough
> >>>&g= t;>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could get= the
> >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been mist= ing her little cage and putting
> >>>>>>> a hea= ting pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't
> >&= gt;>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
> >&g= t;>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control her= right leg,
> >>>>>>> and her right foot is sma= ller than her left and the toes kind of
> >>>>>>&g= t; clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg
> >= ;>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something wro= ng with the
> >>>>>>> joint, too. Although in w= atching her with the skin problem, some
> >>>>>>&g= t; of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her
> &g= t;>>>>>> movement.
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, mo= st of that first skin has
> >>>>>>> already bee= n shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has
> >>>&= gt;>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her= use
> >>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are onl= y about the size of thin pencil
> >>>>>>> lead,= and the skin seems to fully coat those.
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until th= e last couple of days, though,
> >>>>>>> when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started
> >>= ;>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by lur= ching her
> >>>>>>> body back and forth because= her little arms & legs are still
> >>>>>>>= encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.
> &= gt;>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray!
> = >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We haven'= t ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they
> >>>= ;>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma lati= cauda,
> >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus,= & Mourning - Lepidodactylus
> >>>>>>> lugu= bris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she
> >= >>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just take th= e hatchlings
> >>>>>>> outside so they have a b= etter chance of survival -- we have lots
> >>>>>>&= gt; of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if
>= ; >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(
> >&= gt;>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherro= n
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>=
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>><= BR>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
> &= gt;>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello = Sherron ~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>= >>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos a= t
> >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is reall= y memory-challenged, so I don't
> >>>>>>>> k= now how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1"
> >= >>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a = vented plastic
> >>>>>>>> container with a d= amp washcloth inside. Place this near a
> >>>>>>&g= t;> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water
> &g= t;>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the container= . After a few hours
> >>>>>>>> or so perhaps= you can remove the rings of old skin around her
> >>>>&= gt;>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.
> >= >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What = is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new
> >>&g= t;>>>>> pet here?
> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Qu= estion on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
> >>>>>= ;>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
> >>>>>&= gt;>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >&g= t;>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
>= >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=
> >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
> >>>>>>= ;>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>>>>&= gt;>>
> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchl= ing on May 13 that was a little
> >>>>>>>> u= nderdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when
> &g= t;>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was de= hydrated and has a
> >>>>>>>> problem with h= er right leg, but is spunky.
> >>>>>>>>
&g= t; >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her out= side like we do the rest
> >>>>>>>> of the h= atchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being
> >>&= gt;>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well eat= ing tiny bugs
> >>>>>>>> & aphids I coll= ect for her. She has also shown a real interest
> >>>>&g= t;>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think she = has
> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.
= > >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>&= gt; But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &
&g= t; >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near he= r cage to help warm her
> >>>>>>>> up. It se= ems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she
> >>&g= t;>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get= off.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>= >>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don= 't
> >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it= off! The rest of the skin except
> >>>>>>>>= for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around
> = >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, = so it may be another
> >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>= ;> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky
&= gt; >>>>>>>> little girl.
> >>>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>= >
> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sing = (and dance)~~~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>= ;>>>>> l l
> >>>>>>>> l ^^ /.= .\ ^^ /..\ ^^
> >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^
> = >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll
> >>>>>&= gt;>> \\\ l l llll ///
> >>>>>>>> l l l= lll \\\
> >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///
> &g= t;>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~
> >>>>= ;>>>> ) ( )
> >>>>>>>> ( ) (
&= gt; >>>>>>>> ) ( )
> >>>>>>= >> lappert(a) robert(a)
> >>>>>>>> hub= ert(a)
> >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo
> >>&= gt;>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.
> >>>>>>>&= gt; (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)
> >>>>>>>>=
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= >>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>> **************
= > >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers= . Watch "Cooking with Tyler
> >>>>>>>> Flore= nce" on AOL Food.
> >>>>>>>> (http://food.aol= .com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002)
> &g= t;>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
>= >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> = >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> &= gt;>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>
>= ; >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------= --------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on= the Big Island of
> >>>>>>> Hawaii)
> &g= t;>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron -
&= gt; >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
> >&= gt;>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgall= ery.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>&= gt;> -------------------------------------------------------------------= -----
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= ;> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone
>= >>>>>>> <http://mobile.aol.com/productOverview.jsp= ?productOverview=3Daol-mobile-overview&?&ncid=3Daolmbd0003000000013= 9>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>= ; >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________= ________________________________
> >>>>>> Global Ge= cko Association
> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com
= > >>>>>> Classifieds
> >>>>>> = http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> >>>>= >> gecko mailing list
> >>>>>> gecko@lists.ge= kkota.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman= /listinfo/gecko
> >>>>>>
> >>>>&g= t;
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________= _________________________
> >>>> Global Gecko Association=
> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com
> >>>> C= lassifieds
> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/clas= sifieds.cgi
> >>>> gecko mailing list
> >>>= ;> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>> http://lists.gekkota= .com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
> >>>>
> >>>> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________= ______________________
> >> Global Gecko Association
> &g= t;> http://www.gekkota.com
> >> Classifieds
> >>= http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> >> gecko = mailing list
> >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >> http= ://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
> >>
> > <= BR>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gl= obal Gecko Association
> http://www.gekkota.com
> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> gecko mai= ling list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> http://lists.gekkota.com/= mailman/listinfo/gecko

It=92s easy to add contacts from = Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How. = --_50bac4f0-cdb6-4afb-945a-bb9717f7c7ca_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 20:06:17 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:06:17 +0000 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: --_35a8606e-6678-479b-a2d4-de0f5e340485_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh yeah, =20 One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;) =20 =20 GECKOsRULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!! From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck= o]Li'i isn't cooperating!Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:54:53 +0000 Melody, If you have something to say to me say it directly to me. Don't b= e a passive aggressive bitch. I have seen no talk about geckos here.I have = seen a lot of overly sympathetic drama laden crap. No real exchange of legi= timate information.The only people other than me and 1 or two others who pa= rticipate in this train wreck of a "society's" list serve are clearly a bun= ch of social rejects who all wallow in each others thirst for acceptance fr= om their fellow human beans. Sorry to be such a cranky dick but I figured y= ou'd been away from dick so long I'd just thrust one into your peaceful "p= assive" life. If you all want to actually get out of the cyber world and in= teract face to face with REAL GECKO PEOPLE I might suggest you all attend t= he Reptile SUpershow in a couple of weeks.There will be a fantastic talk on= geckos with at least 100 species photographed. Also the biggest gecko keep= ers in the world will be in attendance (ahem...me!!)And The Great JON BOONE= !!Yipee!!You know the guy who pretty much built this dam sight with just hi= s pics alone!! Hope to see you all there.My heart will be singing for all o= f you.You should hear it it really is quite melodious ! www.reptilesupersho= w.com Anyone heard about the next gecko night? The next GECKO? Christ eve= n the godam President of this pathetic joke doesn't do shit with geckos,nev= er really did. I guess I should just be banned like his brother. I said it = before nothing here but a bunch of overly-complimentary back patting bullsh= it. You have made the GECKO GODS ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to fix thi= ngs by tossing out a sacrificial lamb. Just sacrifice the whole GGA it's pr= etty much the same thing as a virgin...an untouched unloved waste of time. = Get a life. Peace be with you, = Jay "GG" Sommers > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:18:13 -0800> > Hi = Sherron,> > How's Li'i doing?> > BTW don't let one cranky person scare you = off, the rest of us were > having a good time talking about geckos and stuf= f ;-)> > Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Melody> > > > Thanks for the = info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will > > see if Sunshin= e will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)> > > > We are = trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many > > problems!= We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a > > little terr= or!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all > > those fruit fl= ies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her > > down -- we ar= e afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is > > really fast! S= he is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- > > she knows the dr= ill now, and all the tricks to get away.> > > > Dennis tries to wet her ski= n and get a grip with the tweezers while I > > try to keep her from leaping= off his lap. But she is a real moving target!> > > > And now she is doing = something else that has us worried -- she keeps > > opening her mouth reall= y wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so > > I don't know if she is= gasping for air or not, but I don't think we > > could hear her if she was= . I know she hates what we are doing, but we > > aren't sure if she is real= ly in distress or not. My husband got worried > > so we put her back in the= steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it > > moved only a tiny bit),= but I wondered if you could shed some light on > > the gaping.> > I know s= ome animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional > > distress, but = I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt > > her if we co= ntinue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? > > Or could the= re really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > > noticed befo= re? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat > > at least a c= ouple of fruit flies earlier this morning.> > > > Or is the little stinker = smarter than us and has just gotten us figured > > out already and knows wh= at buttons to push? ;)> > > > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town= , either. And we lived > > about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest= "big" town to us was > > North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of= Oregon, though. It was > > a great place to grow up, especially for a tomb= oy like me. I always > > loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet = frogs, salamanders, > > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads= , chipmunks, anything > > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor = mom wild. ;)> > > > Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for t= he berries! > > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries = .. yumm! My > > best friend and I drove from Southern California up through= Oregon to > > where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberri= es along the > > way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)> > > > Tha= nks,> > Sherron> > > > Melody Hartley wrote:> > > >> Hi Sharron,> >>> >> I = get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.> >> They'= re near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and> >> Dave -= - nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of> >> someone = near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also> >> getting = a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's> >> pretty = easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I> >> think the= y sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your> >> gecko gets U= VB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you> >> don't need t= he kind with D3 in it.> >>> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and = I agree. They're in> >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new m= ealworm customers> >> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth a= nd I recommended> >> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-)> >>> >>= You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting> >> = tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!> >> Ge= ckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if> >> you= can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling> >> on= the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second> >> person= holding the gecko.> >>> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, betwe= en Beaverton and> >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs = together here now> >> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name = too ;-D> >>> >> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sur= e you can't> >> ship them to Oregon though, LOL!> >>> >> Best of luck!> >> = Melody> >>> >> Gecko wrote:> >>> >>> Aloha, Melody> >>>> >>> Flightless fru= it flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to > >>> google for them an= d see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to > >>> have an import license= to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the > >>> geckos! Right now, we ar= e having problems finding someone to ship > >>> quickly enough in the summe= r, even with the license. We need a good > >>> supplier that ships from som= ewhere near the west coast as all the > >>> places I know are mid or east c= oast. A mealworm import license is $50 > >>> a year for unlimited shipments= -- and they all go through Honolulu > >>> for inspection! If flightless fr= uit flies are on the list, they would > >>> cost the same. Hawaii actually = has a great endemic fruit fly that is > >>> huge -- about the size of a sma= ll house fly. Too big for our little > >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the= size of her head! Pretty neat, though!> >>>> >>> Yes, I would be intereste= d in your source for the flies. I can always > >>> ask them if they ship he= re. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss > >>> army knife, so my job has= become easier and faster, thank goodness! > >>> I can sometimes now just h= old them with my fingers and clip them! > >>> Much easier! ;)> >>>> >>> We = are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. > >>> And = it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to > >>> get i= t off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her > >>> tail. N= ot that she liked the rest of it, but that part always > >>> bothered her t= he most and she would take off like a bolt!!> >>>> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot = as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved > >>> away to England for= a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real > >>> familiar with where = places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, > >>> but I sure like the = name! ;)> >>>> >>> Mahalo,> >>> Sherron> >>>> >>> Melody Hartley wrote:> >>= >> >>>> Aloha Sharron,> >>>>> >>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This = little one is so lucky to > >>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have be= en someone's lunch > >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you= know you can > >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier.= I do that > >>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatch= ling geckos > >>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, o= r get one > >>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate= from the > >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I ca= n give > >>>> you more info if you're interested.> >>>>> >>>> Do you have t= he little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any > >>>> other tiny bug= s you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go > >>>> blind clipping = fruit fly wings, LOL!> >>>>> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she migh= t lose the extra skin on > >>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail sk= in off by peeling front > >>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out.> >>= >>> >>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although > >>>>= pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" > >>>> = -- ah-LO-ah.> >>>>> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;= -)> >>>>> >>>> Melody> >>>>> >>>> Gecko wrote:> >>>>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody> = >>>>>> >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but t= hat > >>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;)> >>>>= >> >>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper > >= >>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.> >>>>>> >>>>> Now that s= he is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf > >>>>> with red ti,= honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on > >>>>> paper towels, b= ut she really seems to like the banana leaf and we > >>>>> have tons of the= m. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out > >>>>> on. And all the d= ay geckos like the helekonia -- that and the > >>>>> bananas are their favo= rite hangouts ... along with our lanai and > >>>>> house. ;)> >>>>>> >>>>> = Mahalo,> >>>>> Sherron> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:> >= >>>>> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a= > >>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink ful= l > >>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be = > >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose.> >>>>>>> >>= >>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~> >>= >>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber n= ear a > >>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wru= ng > >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >= >>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin > >= >>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another id= ea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a > >>>>>>> section of cho= ya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle > >>>>>>> up against to = assist in the shed.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right = leg work more efficiently!> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Keep us posted!> >>>>>>> > >>= >>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos > >>>= >>>> roamed freely ;-]> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha= , Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is= the smallest > >>>>>>> day gecko> >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, alt= hough some of our mourning gecko> >>>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier.> >>>>= >>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften > >>>>= >>> enough to> >>>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we coul= d get the > >>>>>>> neck> >>>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little= cage and putting a> >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a = little and wasn't> >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.> >>>>>>> Sh= e has never seemed to be able to fully control her right > >>>>>>> leg, and= > >>>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>= >>>>> clumped> >>>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg = together > >>>>>>> as a> >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with= the joint, too. > >>>>>>> Although> >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin = problem, some of that may just > >>>>>>> be the> >>>>>>> skin being so tigh= t it restricts her movement.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hat= chlings, most of that first skin has> >>>>>>> already been shed, but she wa= s fully covered with it and it > >>>>>>> has only> >>>>>>> recently started= splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > >>>>>>> her> >>>>>>> limbs = -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>>> lead, and> >>>= >>>> the skin seems to fully coat those.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doi= ng okay up until the last couple of days, > >>>>>>> though,> >>>>>>> when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started> >>>>>>> really = becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching > >>>>>>> her body> >>>= >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>>> enca= sed in> >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And sh= e is> >>>>>>> green underneath, not gray!> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever= actually kept any of the geckos before, as > >>>>>>> they run> >>>>>>> all= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>>> house ->= >>>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). > >>= >>>>> But we> >>>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she could= n't fend > >>>>>>> for> >>>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchling= s outside so they > >>>>>>> have a> >>>>>>> better chance of survival -- we= have lots of big geckos running> >>>>>>> around inside and they don't last= long if we don't get to > >>>>>>> them first. :(> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo,= Sherron> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eli= zabethFreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~> >>>>>>>>> >>= >>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at > >>>>>>= >> home> >>>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't= > >>>>>>>> know how> >>>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geck= os are 1" 3/8" at> >>>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented pl= astic container> >>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a l= ight. Almost> >>>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulat= e on the> >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perh= aps > >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her ne= ck gently with a> >>>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> = What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a > >>>>>>>> new pet= > >>>>>>>> here?> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[g= ecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having> >>>>>>>>> trouble sh= edding "egg skin"> >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time> = >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)> >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-adm= in@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>= >> > >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com>= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little>= >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have > >>>= >>>>> when> >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated a= nd has a> >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.> >>>>>>>>> >>= >>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the > >>>>>>>= > rest of> >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from= > >>>>>>>> being very> >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well= eating tiny bugs &> >>>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown = a real interest in> >>>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't= think she has> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But = she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &> >>>>>>>> clammy, = so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm > >>>>>>>> her up.> >>>>= >>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > >>>>>>>= > has a> >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.> >>>>= >>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >= >>>>>>>> don't> >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of t= he skin except> >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but th= e stuff > >>>>>>>> around> >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a rin= g, so it may be another> >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help w= ould be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky> >>>>>>>> little girl= .> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> >>>>>>> Fro= m: Gecko > >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>= >> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on = hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko > >>>>>>> having trouble shedding ...> >>>>>>= >> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose t= o vent -- she is the smallest day > >>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever se= en, although some of our mourning > >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinie= r.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just softe= n enough > >>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could= get the > >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and = putting > >>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little an= d wasn't > >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.> >>>>>>> She has ne= ver seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, > >>>>>>> and her rig= ht foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>>>>>> clumped tog= ether. She often tends to move the joint and leg > >>>>>>> together as a un= it, so there may be something wrong with the > >>>>>>> joint, too. Although= in watching her with the skin problem, some > >>>>>>> of that may just be = the skin being so tight it restricts her > >>>>>>> movement.> >>>>>>>> >>>>= >>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > >>>>= >>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has > >>>>>= >> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use > >>>>>>= > of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>>>= lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has be= en doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > >>>>>>> when the = skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > >>>>>>> really be= coming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her > >>>>>>> body back a= nd forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>>> encased in the = skin, although it has come off some of the back. > >>>>>>> And she is green= underneath, not gray!> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any = of the geckos before, as they > >>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and= garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mou= rning - Lepidodactylus > >>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception= in her case, since she > >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we jus= t take the hatchlings > >>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of sur= vival -- we have lots > >>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and the= y don't last long if > >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(> >>>>>>>> >>>= >>>> Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~> = >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos= at > >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don= 't > >>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1= " > >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >= >>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a > >>>>>= >>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water > >>>>>>>> acc= umulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours > >>>>>>>> or = so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her > >>>>>>>> neck = gently with a tweezers or small scissors.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the p= roblem with her right leg? Might you have a new > >>>>>>>> pet here?> >>>>>= >>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchl= ing Gold Dust Day Gecko having > >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"> >>>= >>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time> >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.= hale@gmail.com (Sherron)> >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com> = >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a ti= ny hatchling on May 13 that was a little > >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was = still in that grayish skin they have when > >>>>>>>> they first come out of= the shell. She was dehydrated and has a > >>>>>>>> problem with her right = leg, but is spunky.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the rest > >>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her ba= d leg has kept her from being > >>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doin= g pretty well eating tiny bugs > >>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She h= as also shown a real interest > >>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papa= ya, but I don't think she has > >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.> >>>>>>>= >> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > = >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her > >= >>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > = >>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.> >>>>>>>= >> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don'= t > >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin excep= t > >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff arou= nd > >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be anothe= r > >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appre= ciated as she is really a spunky > >>>>>>>> little girl.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>= > Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sin= g (and dance)~~~> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l l > >>>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ > = >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^> >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll > >>>>>>>> \\\ l l llll ///> >>>>= >>>> l l llll \\\> >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///> >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~>= >>>>>>>> ) ( )> >>>>>>>> ( ) (> >>>>>>>> ) ( )> >>>>>>>> lappert(a) robert= (a) > >>>>>>>> hubert(a)> >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo > >>>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.> >>>>>= >>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> **************> >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing= burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > >>>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food.> >>>>= >>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod0003000000= 0002) > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------- > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawa= ii (on the Big Island of > >>>>>>> Hawaii)> >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-p= ohaku.com/sherron - > >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com> >>>>>>> See our= rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----= -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>= >>>> >>>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >= >>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >= >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>= >> Global Gecko Association> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com> >>>>>> Classifi= eds> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> >>>>>> geck= o mailing list> >>>>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota= .com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ____________________= ___________________________> >>>> Global Gecko Association> >>>> http://www= .gekkota.com> >>>> Classifieds> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/cla= ssifieds.cgi> >>>> gecko mailing list> >>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>> h= ttp://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _____= __________________________________________> >> Global Gecko Association> >>= http://www.gekkota.com> >> Classifieds> >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekk= ota/classifieds.cgi> >> gecko mailing list> >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >> = http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>> > > > ________________= _______________________________> Global Gecko Association> http://www.gekko= ta.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> ge= cko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman= /listinfo/gecko It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How.=20 _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=3DTXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now= --_35a8606e-6678-479b-a2d4-de0f5e340485_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh yeah,

One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;)

   GECKOsRULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: R= E: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:54:53 +0000<= BR>
Melody,

If you have something to say to me say it direc= tly to me. Don't be a passive aggressive bitch. I have seen no talk about g= eckos here.I have seen a lot of overly sympathetic drama laden crap. No rea= l exchange of legitimate information.The only people other than me and 1 or= two others who participate in this train wreck of a "society's" list serve= are clearly a bunch of social rejects who all wallow in each others thirst= for acceptance from their fellow human beans. Sorry to be such a cranky di= ck but I figured you'd been away from dick so long I'd just thrust one into= your peaceful "passive" life. If you all want to actually get out of= the cyber world and interact face to face with REAL GECKO PEOPLE I might s= uggest you all attend the Reptile SUpershow in a couple of weeks.There will= be a fantastic talk on geckos with at least 100 species photographed. Also= the biggest gecko keepers in the world will be in attendance (ahem...me!!)= And The Great JON BOONE!!Yipee!!You know the guy who pretty much built this= dam sight with just his pics alone!! Hope to see you all there.My heart wi= ll be singing for all of you.You should hear it it really is quite melodiou= s ! www.reptil= esupershow.com

Anyone heard about the next gecko ni= ght? The next GECKO? Christ even the godam President of this pathetic joke = doesn't do shit with geckos,never really did. I guess I should just be bann= ed like his brother. I said it before nothing here but a bunch of overly-co= mplimentary back patting bullshit.

You have made the GE= CKO GODS ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to fix things by tossing out a sacri= ficial lamb. Just sacrifice the whole GGA it's pretty much the same thing a= s a virgin...an untouched unloved waste of time.

  &= nbsp; Get a life.

        P= eace be with you,

       &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp; Jay "GG" Sommers

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
> Date: Fri, 13 Ju= n 2008 09:18:13 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
> How's L= i'i doing?
>
> BTW don't let one cranky person scare you off, = the rest of us were
> having a good time talking about geckos and st= uff ;-)
>
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
> > > Aloha, Melody
> >
> > Thanks for the info on = Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will
> > see if Sunsh= ine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)
> >=
> > We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having= so many
> > problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, = but now she is a
> > little terror!! She is faster than a speedin= g bullet -- must be all
> > those fruit flies she is eating! We d= on't know how to actually hold her
> > down -- we are afraid we w= ill break her, as she is so tiny and she is
> > really fast! She = is only holding still for a fraction of a second --
> > she knows= the drill now, and all the tricks to get away.
> >
> > = Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I
&= gt; > try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving= target!
> >
> > And now she is doing something else tha= t has us worried -- she keeps
> > opening her mouth really wild a= nd gaping. She doesn't make any noise so
> > I don't know if she = is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we
> > could hear he= r if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we
> > aren= 't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried
>= ; > so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more= (it
> > moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed= some light on
> > the gaping.
> > I know some animals, = like birds, can actually die from emotional
> > distress, but I d= on't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt
> > her i= f we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress?
> = > Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't=
> > noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her cat= ch and eat
> > at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morn= ing.
> >
> > Or is the little stinker smarter than us an= d has just gotten us figured
> > out already and knows what butto= ns to push? ;)
> >
> > Cooston where I grew up wasn't mu= ch of a town, either. And we lived
> > about 10 miles outside of = it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was
> > North Bend/Coos B= ay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was
> > a gre= at place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always
> >= ; loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, > > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, = anything
> > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom= wild. ;)
> >
> > Oh and the berries! There is no place = like Oregon for the berries!
> > Salmonberries, huckleberries, th= imbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My
> > best friend and I drov= e from Southern California up through Oregon to
> > where we live= d about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the
> > w= ay every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)
> >
> > T= hanks,
> > Sherron
> >
> > Melody Hartley wrote= :
> >
> >> Hi Sharron,
> >>
> >&= gt; I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.
= > >> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for = Erin and
> >> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii= they might know of
> >> someone near you who keeps dart frogs = and would help. I'd suggest also
> >> getting a bag of their fr= uit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's
> >> pretty easy= , and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I
> >> = think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your
>= >> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window= ) you
> >> don't need the kind with D3 in it.
> >><= BR>> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They'= re in
> >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new me= alworm customers
> >> for a while, but you might tell them that= Elizabeth and I recommended
> >> them and maybe that will make= a difference ;-)
> >>
> >> You mentioned that you = thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting
> >> tighter. Sh= e is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!
> >> = Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if
&g= t; >> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently= pulling
> >> on the edge closest to her body. This probably wo= uld need a second
> >> person holding the gecko.
> >&g= t;
> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beave= rton and
> >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything = runs together here now
> >> and it never was much of a town. Bu= t I like the name too ;-D
> >>
> >> My geckos would= love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't
> >> sh= ip them to Oregon though, LOL!
> >>
> >> Best of lu= ck!
> >> Melody
> >>
> >> Gecko wrote:<= BR>> >>
> >>> Aloha, Melody
> >>>> >>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will= have to
> >>> google for them and see if I can get them in= to Hawaii! I have to
> >>> have an import license to have m= ealworms shipped to me to feed the
> >>> geckos! Right now,= we are having problems finding someone to ship
> >>> quick= ly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good
> >= ;>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the=
> >>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm impo= rt license is $50
> >>> a year for unlimited shipments -- a= nd they all go through Honolulu
> >>> for inspection! If fl= ightless fruit flies are on the list, they would
> >>> cost= the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is
> &= gt;>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our li= ttle
> >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her hea= d! Pretty neat, though!
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I wo= uld be interested in your source for the flies. I can always
> >&= gt;> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss=
> >>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, = thank goodness!
> >>> I can sometimes now just hold them wi= th my fingers and clip them!
> >>> Much easier! ;)
> = >>>
> >>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry th= at it is too tight on her.
> >>> And it seems to make her t= ail less flexible. But we dread trying to
> >>> get it off,= as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her
> >>&g= t; tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always
> &= gt;>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!!
&= gt; >>>
> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in = Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved
> >>> away to England for = a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real
> >>> famil= iar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon,
> &g= t;>> but I sure like the name! ;)
> >>>
> >&g= t;> Mahalo,
> >>> Sherron
> >>>
> &g= t;>> Melody Hartley wrote:
> >>>
> >>>&= gt; Aloha Sharron,
> >>>>
> >>>> You ar= e so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to
> >&g= t;>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch > >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you kn= ow you can
> >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that = might be easier. I do that
> >>>> because I keep a few d= art frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos
> >>>> to= o. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one
> &g= t;>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate f= rom the
> >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a rec= essive gene. I can give
> >>>> you more info if you're i= nterested.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have th= e little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any
> >>>&= gt; other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go
= > >>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL!
> >>= >>
> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she migh= t lose the extra skin on
> >>>> the next shed. I've only= gotten the tail skin off by peeling front
> >>>> to bac= k, like turning a cone inside out.
> >>>>
> >>= ;>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although
&= gt; >>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part an= d a soft "h"
> >>>> -- ah-LO-ah.
> >>>>= ;
> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list= ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Melody
> >&= gt;>>
> >>>> Gecko wrote:
> >>>><= BR>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody
> >>>>>
= > >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a pain= tbrush, but that
> >>>>> would be softer and probably= hold the moisture better. ;)
> >>>>>
> >>= >>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper=
> >>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better= .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now that she is= back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf
> >>>>= > with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on
&g= t; >>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the bana= na leaf and we
> >>>>> have tons of them. And the red= ti is her favorite for hanging out
> >>>>> on. And a= ll the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the
> >>>&= gt;> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and > >>>>> house. ;)
> >>>>>
> = >>>>> Mahalo,
> >>>>> Sherron
> &= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>&g= t;
> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
> >>>&= gt;>
> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use= a paper towel rather than a
> >>>>>> washcloth in= the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full
> >>>= ;>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also = be
> >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and w= orking it loose.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>&= gt;> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~
> >>>&g= t;>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for these detai= ls. Please try the humidity chamber near a
> >>>>>>= ;> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung
>= ; >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic cont= ainer. Watch the
> >>>>>>> water droplets form.= After only a few hours I imagine her skin
> >>>>>>= ;> might be loose enough to start a split.
> >>>>>&= gt;>
> >>>>>>> Another idea! Have something l= ike a twig, small branch, or a
> >>>>>>> sectio= n of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle
> >>= ;>>>>> up against to assist in the shed.
> >>>= ;>>>>
> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed= helps her right leg work more efficiently!
> >>>>>>= ;>
> >>>>>>> Keep us posted!
> >>= ;>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wish I lived ne= ar the beach in a place warm enough where geckos
> >>>>&= gt;>> roamed freely ;-]
> >>>>>>>
>= >>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>>>>= ;
> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
> >>>= ;>>>>
> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" fr= om nose to vent -- she is the smallest
> >>>>>>>= ; day gecko
> >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever see= n, although some of our mourning gecko
> >>>>>>>= hatchlings are even tinier.
> >>>>>>>
> &= gt;>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would jus= t soften
> >>>>>>> enough to
> >>&g= t;>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could ge= t the
> >>>>>>> neck
> >>>>&g= t;>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a
= > >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only hel= ps a little and wasn't
> >>>>>>> keeping the hum= idity up high enough.
> >>>>>>> She has never se= emed to be able to fully control her right
> >>>>>>= ;> leg, and
> >>>>>>> her right foot is small= er than her left and the toes kind of
> >>>>>>>= clumped
> >>>>>>> together. She often tends to = move the joint and leg together
> >>>>>>> as a<= BR>> >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong = with the joint, too.
> >>>>>>> Although
>= >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some o= f that may just
> >>>>>>> be the
> >&g= t;>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement.
&g= t; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Usuall= y when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has
> >>= >>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it a= nd it
> >>>>>>> has only
> >>>&g= t;>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use o= f
> >>>>>>> her
> >>>>>>= ;> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil
> >= ;>>>>>> lead, and
> >>>>>>> th= e skin seems to fully coat those.
> >>>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last = couple of days,
> >>>>>>> though,
> >&= gt;>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else,= too) started
> >>>>>>> really becoming a proble= m. She now gets around by lurching
> >>>>>>> he= r body
> >>>>>>> back and forth because her litt= le arms & legs are still
> >>>>>>> encased = in
> >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off = some of the back. And she is
> >>>>>>> green und= erneath, not gray!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>= ;>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, a= s
> >>>>>>> they run
> >>>>&g= t;>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,
= > >>>>>>> house -
> >>>>>>&= gt; Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris).
&= gt; >>>>>>> But we
> >>>>>>>= ; had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend
> &g= t;>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> herself= . Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they
> >>>= >>>> have a
> >>>>>>> better chance = of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running
> >>>>&= gt;>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to
&= gt; >>>>>>> them first. :(
> >>>>>= ;>>
> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
> >= >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >&= gt;>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >&g= t;>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>= ;>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>= ;>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
&= gt; >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>&g= t; Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at
> >= ;>>>>>>> home
> >>>>>>>>= because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't
> >>= ;>>>>>> know how
> >>>>>>>>= big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at
> >= >>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented p= lastic container
> >>>>>>>> with a damp washc= loth inside. Place this near a light. Almost
> >>>>>&g= t;>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the
= > >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a f= ew hours or so perhaps
> >>>>>>>> you
>= ; >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around = her neck gently with a
> >>>>>>>> tweezers or= small scissors.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>&= gt;>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you h= ave a
> >>>>>>>> new pet
> >>>= ;>>>>> here?
> >>>>>>>>
>= ; >>>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>>&g= t;>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Questio= n on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
> >>>>>>&= gt;>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
> >>>>>>>= ;>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >>>= >>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
> >&= gt;>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
&g= t; >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com <= BR>> >>>>>>>>> <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota= .com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekko= ta.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>= ;>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little
= > >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that = grayish skin they have
> >>>>>>>> when
&g= t; >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She w= as dehydrated and has a
> >>>>>>>> problem wi= th her right leg, but is spunky.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the
> >>>>>>>> rest of> >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad l= eg has kept her from
> >>>>>>>> being very> >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pret= ty well eating tiny bugs &
> >>>>>>>> aph= ids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in
> >&g= t;>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't t= hink she has
> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any = yet.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>&= gt;>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &= ;
> >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad = near her cage to help warm
> >>>>>>>> her up= .
> >>>>>>>> It seems to have started her mol= ting her "egg skin", but she
> >>>>>>>> has = a
> >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that= she can't get off.
> >>>>>>>>
> >&g= t;>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is = so tiny we
> >>>>>>>> don't
> >>= >>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of th= e skin except
> >>>>>>>> for around her neck = should slough off okay, but the stuff
> >>>>>>>= > around
> >>>>>>>> her neck is several la= yers and is a ring, so it may be another
> >>>>>>&g= t;> matter. :(
> >>>>>>>>
> >>= >>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is re= ally a spunky
> >>>>>>>> little girl.
>= >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> = Mahalo, Sherron
> >>>>>>>
> >>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>&g= t;>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>= ;>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>= >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>= ; From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>= > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>>>>> Sent:= Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re:= [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko
> >>>>= >>> having trouble shedding ...
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
> >>&g= t;>>>>
> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" f= rom nose to vent -- she is the smallest day
> >>>>>&g= t;> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning > >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier.
>= ; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This so= unds like it might work! If it would just soften enough
> >>&g= t;>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could= get the
> >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been = misting her little cage and putting
> >>>>>>> a= heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't
> &= gt;>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
> &g= t;>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control= her right leg,
> >>>>>>> and her right foot is= smaller than her left and the toes kind of
> >>>>>&g= t;> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg
>= >>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something= wrong with the
> >>>>>>> joint, too. Although = in watching her with the skin problem, some
> >>>>>&g= t;> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her
>= ; >>>>>>> movement.
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings= , most of that first skin has
> >>>>>>> already= been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has
> >>&= gt;>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders= her use
> >>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are= only about the size of thin pencil
> >>>>>>> l= ead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.
> >>>>>&g= t;>
> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up unti= l the last couple of days, though,
> >>>>>>> wh= en the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started
> >= ;>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by= lurching her
> >>>>>>> body back and forth bec= ause her little arms & legs are still
> >>>>>>= > encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.
&g= t; >>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray!
&= gt; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We ha= ven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they
> >>= ;>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma = laticauda,
> >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frena= tus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus
> >>>>>>> = lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she
> = >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just tak= e the hatchlings
> >>>>>>> outside so they have= a better chance of survival -- we have lots
> >>>>>&= gt;> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if > >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(
> &= gt;>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sh= erron
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= >
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&= gt;
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
&g= t; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> He= llo Sherron ~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>= >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your phot= os at
> >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is r= eally memory-challenged, so I don't
> >>>>>>>&g= t; know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1"
> = >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko i= n a vented plastic
> >>>>>>>> container with= a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a
> >>>>>&g= t;>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water
>= ; >>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the conta= iner. After a few hours
> >>>>>>>> or so per= haps you can remove the rings of old skin around her
> >>>&= gt;>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.
> = >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> W= hat is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new
> >&g= t;>>>>>> pet here?
> >>>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[geck= o]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
> >>>>= ;>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
> >>>>&= gt;>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> &g= t;>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
= > >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota= .com
> >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gek= kota.com <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
> >>>>>= ;>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny ha= tchling on May 13 that was a little
> >>>>>>>&g= t; underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when
>= ; >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She wa= s dehydrated and has a
> >>>>>>>> problem wi= th her right leg, but is spunky.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the rest
> >>>>>>>> of t= he hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being
> >&= gt;>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well= eating tiny bugs
> >>>>>>>> & aphids I = collect for her. She has also shown a real interest
> >>>&g= t;>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think = she has
> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.=
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&= gt;> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad nea= r her cage to help warm her
> >>>>>>>> up. I= t seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she
> >&g= t;>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't= get off.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>= >>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we= don't
> >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cu= t it off! The rest of the skin except
> >>>>>>>= > for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around
&= gt; >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ri= ng, so it may be another
> >>>>>>>> matter. = :(
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= ;>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky <= BR>> >>>>>>>> little girl.
> >>>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherro= n
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= >>
> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart s= ing (and dance)~~~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>= ;>>>>>> l l
> >>>>>>>> l ^= ^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^
> >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^
&= gt; >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll
> >>>>&= gt;>>> \\\ l l llll ///
> >>>>>>>> l= l llll \\\
> >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///
>= ; >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~
> >>>= ;>>>>> ) ( )
> >>>>>>>> ( ) (<= BR>> >>>>>>>> ) ( )
> >>>>>= >>> lappert(a) robert(a)
> >>>>>>>>= hubert(a)
> >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo
> >&= gt;>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.
> >>>>>>&= gt;> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)
> >>>>>>>= >
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>= >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>> **************=
> >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing bur= gers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
> >>>>>>>> F= lorence" on AOL Food.
> >>>>>>>> (http://food= .aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002)
>= ; >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
= > >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
&g= t; >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------= ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>><= BR>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii= (on the Big Island of
> >>>>>>> Hawaii)
>= ; >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - <= BR>> >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
> &= gt;>>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/rat= gallery.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>&= gt;>> ---------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>= ;>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone
= > >>>>>>> <http://mobile.aol.com/productOverview= .jsp?productOverview=3Daol-mobile-overview&?&ncid=3Daolmbd000300000= 00139>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>&g= t;>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ___________= ____________________________________
> >>>>>> Globa= l Gecko Association
> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com=
> >>>>>> Classifieds
> >>>>>&= gt; http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> >>>= >>> gecko mailing list
> >>>>>> gecko@list= s.gekkota.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mai= lman/listinfo/gecko
> >>>>>>
> >>>&g= t;>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________= _____________________________
> >>>> Global Gecko Associa= tion
> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com
> >>>&g= t; Classifieds
> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/= classifieds.cgi
> >>>> gecko mailing list
> >>= ;>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>> http://lists.gek= kota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
> >>>>
> >>&g= t;
> >>
> >>
> >> _____________________= __________________________
> >> Global Gecko Association
>= ; >> http://www.gekkota.com
> >> Classifieds
> >= > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> >> ge= cko mailing list
> >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >> = http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
> >>
> &g= t;
>
> _______________________________________________
>= ; Global Gecko Association
> http://www.gekkota.com
> Classifie= ds
> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> gecko= mailing list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
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Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join= you on Windows Live=99 Messenger. Add them now!<= /body> = --_35a8606e-6678-479b-a2d4-de0f5e340485_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 20:20:42 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Jay Sommers) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:20:42 +0000 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: --_8d8230ae-2423-4ce3-8940-5c294043892c_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh yeah Before I get banned like Lyles brother... fuck the GGA. SUCK MY D= ICK. AND PISS OFF!! You are stealing peoples money by not providing your en= d of the bargain.=20 =20 I like the reference to John Denver he led by example by going down with= out a fight why don't you let the GGA greet him in HELL!!!!!He was a perver= t baby toucher. And his music sucked. Looks like god banned is bitch ass fo= r good(hahahaha). =20 Are you still open to all? Will you take their huddled masses? I mean ever= y kid in school who plays dungeons and dragons and will never know the glor= y of feeling another persons love? This is pathetic. Stop impersonating a g= ecko society!!!! =20 Very kindest regards Jay"GG" Sommers (Protector of all things pure, Gecko) =20 From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck= o]Li'i isn't cooperating!Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:06:17 +0000 Oh yeah, One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;)= GECKOsRULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!! From: jacobsommers@hotmail.comTo: gecko@lists.gekkota.comSubject: RE: [geck= o]Li'i isn't cooperating!Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:54:53 +0000 Melody, If you have something to say to me say it directly to me. Don't b= e a passive aggressive bitch. I have seen no talk about geckos here.I have = seen a lot of overly sympathetic drama laden crap. No real exchange of legi= timate information.The only people other than me and 1 or two others who pa= rticipate in this train wreck of a "society's" list serve are clearly a bun= ch of social rejects who all wallow in each others thirst for acceptance fr= om their fellow human beans. Sorry to be such a cranky dick but I figured y= ou'd been away from dick so long I'd just thrust one into your peaceful "p= assive" life. If you all want to actually get out of the cyber world and in= teract face to face with REAL GECKO PEOPLE I might suggest you all attend t= he Reptile SUpershow in a couple of weeks.There will be a fantastic talk on= geckos with at least 100 species photographed. Also the biggest gecko keep= ers in the world will be in attendance (ahem...me!!)And The Great JON BOONE= !!Yipee!!You know the guy who pretty much built this dam sight with just hi= s pics alone!! Hope to see you all there.My heart will be singing for all o= f you.You should hear it it really is quite melodious ! www.reptilesupersho= w.com Anyone heard about the next gecko night? The next GECKO? Christ eve= n the godam President of this pathetic joke doesn't do shit with geckos,nev= er really did. I guess I should just be banned like his brother. I said it = before nothing here but a bunch of overly-complimentary back patting bullsh= it. You have made the GECKO GODS ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to fix thi= ngs by tossing out a sacrificial lamb. Just sacrifice the whole GGA it's pr= etty much the same thing as a virgin...an untouched unloved waste of time. = Get a life. Peace be with you, = Jay "GG" Sommers > From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [= gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 09:18:13 -0800> > Hi = Sherron,> > How's Li'i doing?> > BTW don't let one cranky person scare you = off, the rest of us were > having a good time talking about geckos and stuf= f ;-)> > Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Melody> > > > Thanks for the = info on Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will > > see if Sunshin= e will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)> > > > We are = trying to get that tail skin off again and are having so many > > problems!= We thought she was hard to handle before, but now she is a > > little terr= or!! She is faster than a speeding bullet -- must be all > > those fruit fl= ies she is eating! We don't know how to actually hold her > > down -- we ar= e afraid we will break her, as she is so tiny and she is > > really fast! S= he is only holding still for a fraction of a second -- > > she knows the dr= ill now, and all the tricks to get away.> > > > Dennis tries to wet her ski= n and get a grip with the tweezers while I > > try to keep her from leaping= off his lap. But she is a real moving target!> > > > And now she is doing = something else that has us worried -- she keeps > > opening her mouth reall= y wild and gaping. She doesn't make any noise so > > I don't know if she is= gasping for air or not, but I don't think we > > could hear her if she was= . I know she hates what we are doing, but we > > aren't sure if she is real= ly in distress or not. My husband got worried > > so we put her back in the= steam bath to loosen the skin up some more (it > > moved only a tiny bit),= but I wondered if you could shed some light on > > the gaping.> > I know s= ome animals, like birds, can actually die from emotional > > distress, but = I don't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt > > her if we co= ntinue even though she is showing signs of acute distress? > > Or could the= re really be something wrong with her that we just haven't > > noticed befo= re? I know she was eating today as I saw her catch and eat > > at least a c= ouple of fruit flies earlier this morning.> > > > Or is the little stinker = smarter than us and has just gotten us figured > > out already and knows wh= at buttons to push? ;)> > > > Cooston where I grew up wasn't much of a town= , either. And we lived > > about 10 miles outside of it anyway. The closest= "big" town to us was > > North Bend/Coos Bay. I have very fond memories of= Oregon, though. It was > > a great place to grow up, especially for a tomb= oy like me. I always > > loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet = frogs, salamanders, > > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads= , chipmunks, anything > > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor = mom wild. ;)> > > > Oh and the berries! There is no place like Oregon for t= he berries! > > Salmonberries, huckleberries, thimbleberries, blackberries = .. yumm! My > > best friend and I drove from Southern California up through= Oregon to > > where we lived about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberri= es along the > > way every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)> > > > Tha= nks,> > Sherron> > > > Melody Hartley wrote:> > > >> Hi Sharron,> >>> >> I = get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.> >> They'= re near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for Erin and> >> Dave -= - nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii they might know of> >> someone = near you who keeps dart frogs and would help. I'd suggest also> >> getting = a bag of their fruit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's> >> pretty = easy, and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I> >> think the= y sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your> >> gecko gets U= VB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window) you> >> don't need t= he kind with D3 in it.> >>> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and = I agree. They're in> >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new m= ealworm customers> >> for a while, but you might tell them that Elizabeth a= nd I recommended> >> them and maybe that will make a difference ;-)> >>> >>= You mentioned that you thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting> >> = tighter. She is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!> >> Ge= ckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if> >> you= can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently pulling> >> on= the edge closest to her body. This probably would need a second> >> person= holding the gecko.> >>> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, betwe= en Beaverton and> >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything runs = together here now> >> and it never was much of a town. But I like the name = too ;-D> >>> >> My geckos would love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sur= e you can't> >> ship them to Oregon though, LOL!> >>> >> Best of luck!> >> = Melody> >>> >> Gecko wrote:> >>> >>> Aloha, Melody> >>>> >>> Flightless fru= it flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will have to > >>> google for them an= d see if I can get them into Hawaii! I have to > >>> have an import license= to have mealworms shipped to me to feed the > >>> geckos! Right now, we ar= e having problems finding someone to ship > >>> quickly enough in the summe= r, even with the license. We need a good > >>> supplier that ships from som= ewhere near the west coast as all the > >>> places I know are mid or east c= oast. A mealworm import license is $50 > >>> a year for unlimited shipments= -- and they all go through Honolulu > >>> for inspection! If flightless fr= uit flies are on the list, they would > >>> cost the same. Hawaii actually = has a great endemic fruit fly that is > >>> huge -- about the size of a sma= ll house fly. Too big for our little > >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the= size of her head! Pretty neat, though!> >>>> >>> Yes, I would be intereste= d in your source for the flies. I can always > >>> ask them if they ship he= re. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss > >>> army knife, so my job has= become easier and faster, thank goodness! > >>> I can sometimes now just h= old them with my fingers and clip them! > >>> Much easier! ;)> >>>> >>> We = are watching the tail skin. I worry that it is too tight on her. > >>> And = it seems to make her tail less flexible. But we dread trying to > >>> get i= t off, as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her > >>> tail. N= ot that she liked the rest of it, but that part always > >>> bothered her t= he most and she would take off like a bolt!!> >>>> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot = as I was born in Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved > >>> away to England for= a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real > >>> familiar with where = places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon, > >>> but I sure like the = name! ;)> >>>> >>> Mahalo,> >>> Sherron> >>>> >>> Melody Hartley wrote:> >>= >> >>>> Aloha Sharron,> >>>>> >>>> You are so patient and dedicated!! This = little one is so lucky to > >>>> have you, since I'm sure she would have be= en someone's lunch > >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you= know you can > >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that might be easier.= I do that > >>>> because I keep a few dart frogs, but I use them for hatch= ling geckos > >>>> too. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, o= r get one > >>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate= from the > >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a recessive gene. I ca= n give > >>>> you more info if you're interested.> >>>>> >>>> Do you have t= he little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any > >>>> other tiny bug= s you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go > >>>> blind clipping = fruit fly wings, LOL!> >>>>> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she migh= t lose the extra skin on > >>>> the next shed. I've only gotten the tail sk= in off by peeling front > >>>> to back, like turning a cone inside out.> >>= >>> >>>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although > >>>>= pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part and a soft "h" > >>>> = -- ah-LO-ah.> >>>>> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list ;= -)> >>>>> >>>> Melody> >>>>> >>>> Gecko wrote:> >>>>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody> = >>>>>> >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a paintbrush, but t= hat > >>>>> would be softer and probably hold the moisture better. ;)> >>>>= >> >>>>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper > >= >>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better.> >>>>>> >>>>> Now that s= he is back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf > >>>>> with red ti,= honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on > >>>>> paper towels, b= ut she really seems to like the banana leaf and we > >>>>> have tons of the= m. And the red ti is her favorite for hanging out > >>>>> on. And all the d= ay geckos like the helekonia -- that and the > >>>>> bananas are their favo= rite hangouts ... along with our lanai and > >>>>> house. ;)> >>>>>> >>>>> = Mahalo,> >>>>> Sherron> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:> >= >>>>> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use a paper towel rather than a= > >>>>>> washcloth in the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink ful= l > >>>>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also be = > >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and working it loose.> >>>>>>> >>= >>>> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~> >>= >>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for these details. Please try the humidity chamber n= ear a > >>>>>>> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wru= ng > >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic container. Watch the >= >>>>>>> water droplets form. After only a few hours I imagine her skin > >= >>>>>> might be loose enough to start a split.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Another id= ea! Have something like a twig, small branch, or a > >>>>>>> section of cho= ya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle > >>>>>>> up against to = assist in the shed.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed helps her right = leg work more efficiently!> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Keep us posted!> >>>>>>> > >>= >>>>> Wish I lived near the beach in a place warm enough where geckos > >>>= >>>> roamed freely ;-]> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aloha= , Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose to vent -- she is= the smallest > >>>>>>> day gecko> >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever seen, alt= hough some of our mourning gecko> >>>>>>> hatchlings are even tinier.> >>>>= >>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just soften > >>>>= >>> enough to> >>>>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we coul= d get the > >>>>>>> neck> >>>>>>> skin off. We have been misting her little= cage and putting a> >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only helps a = little and wasn't> >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.> >>>>>>> Sh= e has never seemed to be able to fully control her right > >>>>>>> leg, and= > >>>>>>> her right foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>= >>>>> clumped> >>>>>>> together. She often tends to move the joint and leg = together > >>>>>>> as a> >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong with= the joint, too. > >>>>>>> Although> >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin = problem, some of that may just > >>>>>>> be the> >>>>>>> skin being so tigh= t it restricts her movement.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hat= chlings, most of that first skin has> >>>>>>> already been shed, but she wa= s fully covered with it and it > >>>>>>> has only> >>>>>>> recently started= splitting. We do think it hinders her use of > >>>>>>> her> >>>>>>> limbs = -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>>> lead, and> >>>= >>>> the skin seems to fully coat those.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has been doi= ng okay up until the last couple of days, > >>>>>>> though,> >>>>>>> when t= he skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started> >>>>>>> really = becoming a problem. She now gets around by lurching > >>>>>>> her body> >>>= >>>> back and forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>>> enca= sed in> >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off some of the back. And sh= e is> >>>>>>> green underneath, not gray!> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever= actually kept any of the geckos before, as > >>>>>>> they run> >>>>>>> all= around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>>> house ->= >>>>>>> Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris). > >>= >>>>> But we> >>>>>>> had to make an exception in her case, since she could= n't fend > >>>>>>> for> >>>>>>> herself. Usually we just take the hatchling= s outside so they > >>>>>>> have a> >>>>>>> better chance of survival -- we= have lots of big geckos running> >>>>>>> around inside and they don't last= long if we don't get to > >>>>>>> them first. :(> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mahalo,= Sherron> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eli= zabethFreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~> >>>>>>>>> >>= >>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at > >>>>>>= >> home> >>>>>>>> because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't= > >>>>>>>> know how> >>>>>>>> big this gecko is! However, my mourning geck= os are 1" 3/8" at> >>>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented pl= astic container> >>>>>>>> with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a l= ight. Almost> >>>>>>>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulat= e on the> >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a few hours or so perh= aps > >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around her ne= ck gently with a> >>>>>>>> tweezers or small scissors.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> = What is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a > >>>>>>>> new pet= > >>>>>>>> here?> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[g= ecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having> >>>>>>>>> trouble sh= edding "egg skin"> >>>>>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time> = >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)> >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-adm= in@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>= >> > >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com>= >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little>= >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have > >>>= >>>>> when> >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She was dehydrated a= nd has a> >>>>>>>> problem with her right leg, but is spunky.> >>>>>>>>> >>= >>>>>> We haven't been able to release her outside like we do the > >>>>>>>= > rest of> >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from= > >>>>>>>> being very> >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pretty well= eating tiny bugs &> >>>>>>>> aphids I collect for her. She has also shown = a real interest in> >>>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't= think she has> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But = she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &> >>>>>>>> clammy, = so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm > >>>>>>>> her up.> >>>>= >>>> It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > >>>>>>>= > has a> >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.> >>>>= >>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we >= >>>>>>>> don't> >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of t= he skin except> >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but th= e stuff > >>>>>>>> around> >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a rin= g, so it may be another> >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help w= ould be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky> >>>>>>>> little girl= .> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> >>>>>>> Fro= m: Gecko > >>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>= >> Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gecko]Question on = hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko > >>>>>>> having trouble shedding ...> >>>>>>= >> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" from nose t= o vent -- she is the smallest day > >>>>>>> gecko hatchling we have ever se= en, although some of our mourning > >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinie= r.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would just softe= n enough > >>>>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could= get the > >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been misting her little cage and = putting > >>>>>>> a heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little an= d wasn't > >>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.> >>>>>>> She has ne= ver seemed to be able to fully control her right leg, > >>>>>>> and her rig= ht foot is smaller than her left and the toes kind of > >>>>>>> clumped tog= ether. She often tends to move the joint and leg > >>>>>>> together as a un= it, so there may be something wrong with the > >>>>>>> joint, too. Although= in watching her with the skin problem, some > >>>>>>> of that may just be = the skin being so tight it restricts her > >>>>>>> movement.> >>>>>>>> >>>>= >>> Usually when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has > >>>>= >>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has > >>>>>= >> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use > >>>>>>= > of her limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil > >>>>>>>= lead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> She has be= en doing okay up until the last couple of days, though, > >>>>>>> when the = skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started > >>>>>>> really be= coming a problem. She now gets around by lurching her > >>>>>>> body back a= nd forth because her little arms & legs are still > >>>>>>> encased in the = skin, although it has come off some of the back. > >>>>>>> And she is green= underneath, not gray!> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any = of the geckos before, as they > >>>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and= garden (Phelsuma laticauda, > >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mou= rning - Lepidodactylus > >>>>>>> lugubris). But we had to make an exception= in her case, since she > >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we jus= t take the hatchlings > >>>>>>> outside so they have a better chance of sur= vival -- we have lots > >>>>>>> of big geckos running around inside and the= y don't last long if > >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(> >>>>>>>> >>>= >>>> Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~> = >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos= at > >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don= 't > >>>>>>>> know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1= " > >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented plastic >= >>>>>>>> container with a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a > >>>>>= >>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water > >>>>>>>> acc= umulate on the sides/top of the container. After a few hours > >>>>>>>> or = so perhaps you can remove the rings of old skin around her > >>>>>>>> neck = gently with a tweezers or small scissors.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is the p= roblem with her right leg? Might you have a new > >>>>>>>> pet here?> >>>>>= >>>> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Question on hatchl= ing Gold Dust Day Gecko having > >>>>>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"> >>>= >>>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time> >>>>>>>>> From: gecko.= hale@gmail.com (Sherron)> >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com> = >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We found a ti= ny hatchling on May 13 that was a little > >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was = still in that grayish skin they have when > >>>>>>>> they first come out of= the shell. She was dehydrated and has a > >>>>>>>> problem with her right = leg, but is spunky.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the rest > >>>>>>>> of the hatchings we find, as her ba= d leg has kept her from being > >>>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doin= g pretty well eating tiny bugs > >>>>>>>> & aphids I collect for her. She h= as also shown a real interest > >>>>>>>> in the fruit flies around her papa= ya, but I don't think she has > >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.> >>>>>>>= >> >>>>>>>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > = >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad near her cage to help warm her > >= >>>>>>> up. It seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she > = >>>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't get off.> >>>>>>>= >> >>>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we don'= t > >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of the skin excep= t > >>>>>>>> for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff arou= nd > >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ring, so it may be anothe= r > >>>>>>>> matter. :(> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appre= ciated as she is really a spunky > >>>>>>>> little girl.> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>= > Mahalo, Sherron> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart sin= g (and dance)~~~> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> l l > >>>>>>>> l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ > = >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^> >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll > >>>>>>>> \\\ l l llll ///> >>>>= >>>> l l llll \\\> >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///> >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~>= >>>>>>>> ) ( )> >>>>>>>> ( ) (> >>>>>>>> ) ( )> >>>>>>>> lappert(a) robert= (a) > >>>>>>>> hubert(a)> >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo > >>>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.> >>>>>= >>> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>= > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> **************> >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing= burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler > >>>>>>>> Florence" on AOL Food.> >>>>= >>>> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod0003000000= 0002) > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >= >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------- > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawa= ii (on the Big Island of > >>>>>>> Hawaii)> >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-p= ohaku.com/sherron - > >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com> >>>>>>> See our= rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----= -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>= >>>> >>>>>>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone >= >>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >= >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________> >>>>= >> Global Gecko Association> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com> >>>>>> Classifi= eds> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> >>>>>> geck= o mailing list> >>>>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota= .com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ____________________= ___________________________> >>>> Global Gecko Association> >>>> http://www= .gekkota.com> >>>> Classifieds> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/cla= ssifieds.cgi> >>>> gecko mailing list> >>>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >>>> h= ttp://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _____= __________________________________________> >> Global Gecko Association> >>= http://www.gekkota.com> >> Classifieds> >> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekk= ota/classifieds.cgi> >> gecko mailing list> >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> >> = http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko> >>> > > > ________________= _______________________________> Global Gecko Association> http://www.gekko= ta.com> Classifieds> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> ge= cko mailing list> gecko@lists.gekkota.com> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman= /listinfo/gecko It=92s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Learn How.=20 Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add them now!=20 _________________________________________________________________ Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=3Dform=3DMIJAAF/publ=3DHMTGL/crea=3Ds= rchpaysyouback= --_8d8230ae-2423-4ce3-8940-5c294043892c_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh yeah Before I get banned like Lyles bro= ther... fuck the GGA. SUCK MY DICK. AND PISS OFF!! You are stealing peoples= money by not providing your end of the bargain.

   I like the reference to John Denver he led by example by going= down without a fight why don't you let the GGA greet him in HELL!!!!!He wa= s a pervert baby toucher. And his music sucked. Looks like god banned is bi= tch ass for good(hahahaha).

Are you still open to all? Will you take their huddled masses? I mean= every kid in school who plays dungeons and dragons and will never know the= glory of feeling another persons love? This is pathetic. Stop impersonatin= g a gecko society!!!!

   Very kindest regards
            &nb= sp;            =       Jay"GG" Sommers
            &nb= sp;            = (Protector of all things pure, Gecko)

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: R= E: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:06:17 +0000<= BR>
Oh yeah,

One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruit= flies to Hawaii.;)

   GECKOsRULE!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<= BR>

From: jacobsommers@hotmail.com
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: R= E: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:54:53 +0000<= BR>
Melody,

If you have something to say to me say it direc= tly to me. Don't be a passive aggressive bitch. I have seen no talk about g= eckos here.I have seen a lot of overly sympathetic drama laden crap. No rea= l exchange of legitimate information.The only people other than me and 1 or= two others who participate in this train wreck of a "society's" list serve= are clearly a bunch of social rejects who all wallow in each others thirst= for acceptance from their fellow human beans. Sorry to be such a cranky di= ck but I figured you'd been away from dick so long I'd just thrust one into= your peaceful "passive" life. If you all want to actually get out of= the cyber world and interact face to face with REAL GECKO PEOPLE I might s= uggest you all attend the Reptile SUpershow in a couple of weeks.There will= be a fantastic talk on geckos with at least 100 species photographed. Also= the biggest gecko keepers in the world will be in attendance (ahem...me!!)= And The Great JON BOONE!!Yipee!!You know the guy who pretty much built this= dam sight with just his pics alone!! Hope to see you all there.My heart wi= ll be singing for all of you.You should hear it it really is quite melodiou= s ! www.reptil= esupershow.com

Anyone heard about the next gecko ni= ght? The next GECKO? Christ even the godam President of this pathetic joke = doesn't do shit with geckos,never really did. I guess I should just be bann= ed like his brother. I said it before nothing here but a bunch of overly-co= mplimentary back patting bullshit.

You have made the GE= CKO GODS ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!! Now you need to fix things by tossing out a sacri= ficial lamb. Just sacrifice the whole GGA it's pretty much the same thing a= s a virgin...an untouched unloved waste of time.

  &= nbsp; Get a life.

        P= eace be with you,

       &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp; Jay "GG" Sommers

> From: mhartley@ix.netcom.com
> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com> Subject: Re: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
> Date: Fri, 13 Ju= n 2008 09:18:13 -0800
>
> Hi Sherron,
>
> How's L= i'i doing?
>
> BTW don't let one cranky person scare you off, = the rest of us were
> having a good time talking about geckos and st= uff ;-)
>
> Melody
>
> Sherron wrote:
> > > Aloha, Melody
> >
> > Thanks for the info on = Ed's, I will see if they can ship to me. Or will
> > see if Sunsh= ine will take me with your references. So much appreciated! ;)
> >=
> > We are trying to get that tail skin off again and are having= so many
> > problems! We thought she was hard to handle before, = but now she is a
> > little terror!! She is faster than a speedin= g bullet -- must be all
> > those fruit flies she is eating! We d= on't know how to actually hold her
> > down -- we are afraid we w= ill break her, as she is so tiny and she is
> > really fast! She = is only holding still for a fraction of a second --
> > she knows= the drill now, and all the tricks to get away.
> >
> > = Dennis tries to wet her skin and get a grip with the tweezers while I
&= gt; > try to keep her from leaping off his lap. But she is a real moving= target!
> >
> > And now she is doing something else tha= t has us worried -- she keeps
> > opening her mouth really wild a= nd gaping. She doesn't make any noise so
> > I don't know if she = is gasping for air or not, but I don't think we
> > could hear he= r if she was. I know she hates what we are doing, but we
> > aren= 't sure if she is really in distress or not. My husband got worried
>= ; > so we put her back in the steam bath to loosen the skin up some more= (it
> > moved only a tiny bit), but I wondered if you could shed= some light on
> > the gaping.
> > I know some animals, = like birds, can actually die from emotional
> > distress, but I d= on't think geckos fall into that category. Will it hurt
> > her i= f we continue even though she is showing signs of acute distress?
> = > Or could there really be something wrong with her that we just haven't=
> > noticed before? I know she was eating today as I saw her cat= ch and eat
> > at least a couple of fruit flies earlier this morn= ing.
> >
> > Or is the little stinker smarter than us an= d has just gotten us figured
> > out already and knows what butto= ns to push? ;)
> >
> > Cooston where I grew up wasn't mu= ch of a town, either. And we lived
> > about 10 miles outside of = it anyway. The closest "big" town to us was
> > North Bend/Coos B= ay. I have very fond memories of Oregon, though. It was
> > a gre= at place to grow up, especially for a tomboy like me. I always
> >= ; loved all the animals and the woods ... I had pet frogs, salamanders, > > timber beetles, snakes, lizards, chickens, crawdads, chipmunks, = anything
> > I could get my hands on. I used to drive my poor mom= wild. ;)
> >
> > Oh and the berries! There is no place = like Oregon for the berries!
> > Salmonberries, huckleberries, th= imbleberries, blackberries .. yumm! My
> > best friend and I drov= e from Southern California up through Oregon to
> > where we live= d about 10 years ago and stopped for blackberries along the
> > w= ay every place we spotted them! Great trip! ;)
> >
> > T= hanks,
> > Sherron
> >
> > Melody Hartley wrote= :
> >
> >> Hi Sharron,
> >>
> >&= gt; I get fruit flies from Ed's Fly Meat, http://www.edsflymeatinc.com.
= > >> They're near Seattle Washington. (There is no Ed, that's for = Erin and
> >> Dave -- nice folks!) If they can't ship to Hawaii= they might know of
> >> someone near you who keeps dart frogs = and would help. I'd suggest also
> >> getting a bag of their fr= uit fly medium so you can raise your own. It's
> >> pretty easy= , and I can give you some tips if/when you get to that. I
> >> = think they sell supplements too, so might have the Rep-Cal. If your
>= >> gecko gets UVB from natural direct sunshine (not through a window= ) you
> >> don't need the kind with D3 in it.
> >><= BR>> >> Elizabeth suggested Sunshine Mealworms, and I agree. They'= re in
> >> Silverton Oregon. I think they are not taking new me= alworm customers
> >> for a while, but you might tell them that= Elizabeth and I recommended
> >> them and maybe that will make= a difference ;-)
> >>
> >> You mentioned that you = thought the old skin on Li'i's tail is getting
> >> tighter. Sh= e is probably just growing on your hand-fed gourmet diet!
> >> = Geckos store fat in their tails. An idea on removing the skin: See if
&g= t; >> you can get it to split by using 2 pairs of tweezers and gently= pulling
> >> on the edge closest to her body. This probably wo= uld need a second
> >> person holding the gecko.
> >&g= t;
> >> Aloha is about 10 miles west of Portland, between Beave= rton and
> >> Hillsboro. It's not exactly a town -- everything = runs together here now
> >> and it never was much of a town. Bu= t I like the name too ;-D
> >>
> >> My geckos would= love some of those big fruit flies! I'm sure you can't
> >> sh= ip them to Oregon though, LOL!
> >>
> >> Best of lu= ck!
> >> Melody
> >>
> >> Gecko wrote:<= BR>> >>
> >>> Aloha, Melody
> >>>> >>> Flightless fruit flies!! Wouldn't she like that!! I will= have to
> >>> google for them and see if I can get them in= to Hawaii! I have to
> >>> have an import license to have m= ealworms shipped to me to feed the
> >>> geckos! Right now,= we are having problems finding someone to ship
> >>> quick= ly enough in the summer, even with the license. We need a good
> >= ;>> supplier that ships from somewhere near the west coast as all the=
> >>> places I know are mid or east coast. A mealworm impo= rt license is $50
> >>> a year for unlimited shipments -- a= nd they all go through Honolulu
> >>> for inspection! If fl= ightless fruit flies are on the list, they would
> >>> cost= the same. Hawaii actually has a great endemic fruit fly that is
> &= gt;>> huge -- about the size of a small house fly. Too big for our li= ttle
> >>> Preemie girl as it is almost the size of her hea= d! Pretty neat, though!
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I wo= uld be interested in your source for the flies. I can always
> >&= gt;> ask them if they ship here. We did find a small scissors on a Swiss=
> >>> army knife, so my job has become easier and faster, = thank goodness!
> >>> I can sometimes now just hold them wi= th my fingers and clip them!
> >>> Much easier! ;)
> = >>>
> >>> We are watching the tail skin. I worry th= at it is too tight on her.
> >>> And it seems to make her t= ail less flexible. But we dread trying to
> >>> get it off,= as she really seems unhappy when we try to work on her
> >>&g= t; tail. Not that she liked the rest of it, but that part always
> &= gt;>> bothered her the most and she would take off like a bolt!!
&= gt; >>>
> >>> Hey, I am a webfoot as I was born in = Oregon in Myrtle Point! We moved
> >>> away to England for = a year when I was 11, 'though, so I am not real
> >>> famil= iar with where places are. I have not heard of Aloha in Oregon,
> &g= t;>> but I sure like the name! ;)
> >>>
> >&g= t;> Mahalo,
> >>> Sherron
> >>>
> &g= t;>> Melody Hartley wrote:
> >>>
> >>>&= gt; Aloha Sharron,
> >>>>
> >>>> You ar= e so patient and dedicated!! This little one is so lucky to
> >&g= t;>> have you, since I'm sure she would have been someone's lunch > >>>> otherwise. If she goes on eating fruit flies, you kn= ow you can
> >>>> raise flightess fruit flies, and that = might be easier. I do that
> >>>> because I keep a few d= art frogs, but I use them for hatchling geckos
> >>>> to= o. You'd have to get a starter culture from someone, or get one
> &g= t;>>> shipped to you if allowed, and keep them strictly separate f= rom the
> >>>> flying ones because "flightless" is a rec= essive gene. I can give
> >>>> you more info if you're i= nterested.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have th= e little bugs in the soil called springtails? Or any
> >>>&= gt; other tiny bugs you could catch, maybe aphids? I'd hate for you go
= > >>>> blind clipping fruit fly wings, LOL!
> >>= >>
> >>>> As to the last bits of shedding, she migh= t lose the extra skin on
> >>>> the next shed. I've only= gotten the tail skin off by peeling front
> >>>> to bac= k, like turning a cone inside out.
> >>>>
> >>= ;>> The town in Oregon that I live in is named "Aloha" although
&= gt; >>>> pronounced differently -- emphasis on the "lo" part an= d a soft "h"
> >>>> -- ah-LO-ah.
> >>>>= ;
> >>>> It's also nice to see some activity on this list= ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Melody
> >&= gt;>>
> >>>> Gecko wrote:
> >>>><= BR>> >>>>> Aloha, Melody
> >>>>>
= > >>>>> Thanks for these ideas. I never thought of a pain= tbrush, but that
> >>>>> would be softer and probably= hold the moisture better. ;)
> >>>>>
> >>= >>> Her toes kept sticking to the washcloth, so we did lay a paper=
> >>>>> towel on top of it and she liked that better= .
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now that she is= back in her regular house, she is on banana leaf
> >>>>= > with red ti, honeysuckle, and helekonia. We used to have her on
&g= t; >>>>> paper towels, but she really seems to like the bana= na leaf and we
> >>>>> have tons of them. And the red= ti is her favorite for hanging out
> >>>>> on. And a= ll the day geckos like the helekonia -- that and the
> >>>&= gt;> bananas are their favorite hangouts ... along with our lanai and > >>>>> house. ;)
> >>>>>
> = >>>>> Mahalo,
> >>>>> Sherron
> &= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>&g= t;
> >>>>> Melody Hartley wrote:
> >>>&= gt;>
> >>>>>> Slightly different method -- I use= a paper towel rather than a
> >>>>>> washcloth in= the humid box, and float the whole box in a sink full
> >>>= ;>>> of warm water for the heat. A small soft paintbrush can also = be
> >>>>>> helpful for wetting the old skin and w= orking it loose.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>&= gt;> elizabethfreer@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>> And Aloha Sherron ~
> >>>&g= t;>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for these detai= ls. Please try the humidity chamber near a
> >>>>>>= ;> lamp for a few hours. Use a wet washcloth that has been wrung
>= ; >>>>>>> out and place it in the vented, plastic cont= ainer. Watch the
> >>>>>>> water droplets form.= After only a few hours I imagine her skin
> >>>>>>= ;> might be loose enough to start a split.
> >>>>>&= gt;>
> >>>>>>> Another idea! Have something l= ike a twig, small branch, or a
> >>>>>>> sectio= n of choya wood --- something rough that she could snuggle
> >>= ;>>>>> up against to assist in the shed.
> >>>= ;>>>>
> >>>>>>> I hope the skin shed= helps her right leg work more efficiently!
> >>>>>>= ;>
> >>>>>>> Keep us posted!
> >>= ;>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wish I lived ne= ar the beach in a place warm enough where geckos
> >>>>&= gt;>> roamed freely ;-]
> >>>>>>>
>= >>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>>>>= ;
> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
> >>>= ;>>>>
> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" fr= om nose to vent -- she is the smallest
> >>>>>>>= ; day gecko
> >>>>>>> hatchling we have ever see= n, although some of our mourning gecko
> >>>>>>>= hatchlings are even tinier.
> >>>>>>>
> &= gt;>>>>>> This sounds like it might work! If it would jus= t soften
> >>>>>>> enough to
> >>&g= t;>>>> pull off her or get a split started, I think we could ge= t the
> >>>>>>> neck
> >>>>&g= t;>> skin off. We have been misting her little cage and putting a
= > >>>>>>> heating pad next to it, but that only hel= ps a little and wasn't
> >>>>>>> keeping the hum= idity up high enough.
> >>>>>>> She has never se= emed to be able to fully control her right
> >>>>>>= ;> leg, and
> >>>>>>> her right foot is small= er than her left and the toes kind of
> >>>>>>>= clumped
> >>>>>>> together. She often tends to = move the joint and leg together
> >>>>>>> as a<= BR>> >>>>>>> unit, so there may be something wrong = with the joint, too.
> >>>>>>> Although
>= >>>>>>> in watching her with the skin problem, some o= f that may just
> >>>>>>> be the
> >&g= t;>>>>> skin being so tight it restricts her movement.
&g= t; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Usuall= y when we find the hatchlings, most of that first skin has
> >>= >>>>> already been shed, but she was fully covered with it a= nd it
> >>>>>>> has only
> >>>&g= t;>>> recently started splitting. We do think it hinders her use o= f
> >>>>>>> her
> >>>>>>= ;> limbs -- her arms are only about the size of thin pencil
> >= ;>>>>>> lead, and
> >>>>>>> th= e skin seems to fully coat those.
> >>>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up until the last = couple of days,
> >>>>>>> though,
> >&= gt;>>>>> when the skin (I hope that it isn't something else,= too) started
> >>>>>>> really becoming a proble= m. She now gets around by lurching
> >>>>>>> he= r body
> >>>>>>> back and forth because her litt= le arms & legs are still
> >>>>>>> encased = in
> >>>>>>> the skin, although it has come off = some of the back. And she is
> >>>>>>> green und= erneath, not gray!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>= ;>>>> We haven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, a= s
> >>>>>>> they run
> >>>>&g= t;>> all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma laticauda,
= > >>>>>>> house -
> >>>>>>&= gt; Hemidactylus frenatus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus lugubris).
&= gt; >>>>>>> But we
> >>>>>>>= ; had to make an exception in her case, since she couldn't fend
> &g= t;>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> herself= . Usually we just take the hatchlings outside so they
> >>>= >>>> have a
> >>>>>>> better chance = of survival -- we have lots of big geckos running
> >>>>&= gt;>> around inside and they don't last long if we don't get to
&= gt; >>>>>>> them first. :(
> >>>>>= ;>>
> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherron
> >= >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >&= gt;>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >&g= t;>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>= ;>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>= ;>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello Sherron ~
&= gt; >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>&g= t; Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your photos at
> >= ;>>>>>>> home
> >>>>>>>>= because my laptop is really memory-challenged, so I don't
> >>= ;>>>>>> know how
> >>>>>>>>= big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1" 3/8" at
> >= >>>>>>> hatching. Try placing your gecko in a vented p= lastic container
> >>>>>>>> with a damp washc= loth inside. Place this near a light. Almost
> >>>>>&g= t;>> immediately you will notice beads of water accumulate on the
= > >>>>>>>> sides/top of the container. After a f= ew hours or so perhaps
> >>>>>>>> you
>= ; >>>>>>>> can remove the rings of old skin around = her neck gently with a
> >>>>>>>> tweezers or= small scissors.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>&= gt;>>>>> What is the problem with her right leg? Might you h= ave a
> >>>>>>>> new pet
> >>>= ;>>>>> here?
> >>>>>>>>
>= ; >>>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>>>&g= t;>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[gecko]Questio= n on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
> >>>>>>&= gt;>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
> >>>>>>>= ;>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >>>= >>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
> >&= gt;>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
&g= t; >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com <= BR>> >>>>>>>>> <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota= .com>
> >>>>>>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekko= ta.com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>= ;>>>> We found a tiny hatchling on May 13 that was a little
= > >>>>>>>> underdeveloped and was still in that = grayish skin they have
> >>>>>>>> when
&g= t; >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She w= as dehydrated and has a
> >>>>>>>> problem wi= th her right leg, but is spunky.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the
> >>>>>>>> rest of> >>>>>>>> the hatchings we find, as her bad l= eg has kept her from
> >>>>>>>> being very> >>>>>>>> mobile, but she has been doing pret= ty well eating tiny bugs &
> >>>>>>>> aph= ids I collect for her. She has also shown a real interest in
> >&g= t;>>>>>> the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't t= hink she has
> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any = yet.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>&= gt;>> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold &= ;
> >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad = near her cage to help warm
> >>>>>>>> her up= .
> >>>>>>>> It seems to have started her mol= ting her "egg skin", but she
> >>>>>>>> has = a
> >>>>>>>> bunch of it around her neck that= she can't get off.
> >>>>>>>>
> >&g= t;>>>>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is = so tiny we
> >>>>>>>> don't
> >>= >>>>>> see how we could try to cut it off! The rest of th= e skin except
> >>>>>>>> for around her neck = should slough off okay, but the stuff
> >>>>>>>= > around
> >>>>>>>> her neck is several la= yers and is a ring, so it may be another
> >>>>>>&g= t;> matter. :(
> >>>>>>>>
> >>= >>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is re= ally a spunky
> >>>>>>>> little girl.
>= >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> = Mahalo, Sherron
> >>>>>>>
> >>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>&g= t;>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>= ;>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>= >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>= ; From: Gecko <gecko.hale@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>= > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>>>>> Sent:= Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:21 am
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re:= [gecko]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko
> >>>>= >>> having trouble shedding ...
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> Aloha, Elizabeth
> >>&g= t;>>>>
> >>>>>>> She is about 3/4" f= rom nose to vent -- she is the smallest day
> >>>>>&g= t;> gecko hatchling we have ever seen, although some of our mourning > >>>>>>> gecko hatchlings are even tinier.
>= ; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This so= unds like it might work! If it would just soften enough
> >>&g= t;>>>> to pull off her or get a split started, I think we could= get the
> >>>>>>> neck skin off. We have been = misting her little cage and putting
> >>>>>>> a= heating pad next to it, but that only helps a little and wasn't
> &= gt;>>>>>> keeping the humidity up high enough.
> &g= t;>>>>>> She has never seemed to be able to fully control= her right leg,
> >>>>>>> and her right foot is= smaller than her left and the toes kind of
> >>>>>&g= t;> clumped together. She often tends to move the joint and leg
>= >>>>>>> together as a unit, so there may be something= wrong with the
> >>>>>>> joint, too. Although = in watching her with the skin problem, some
> >>>>>&g= t;> of that may just be the skin being so tight it restricts her
>= ; >>>>>>> movement.
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> Usually when we find the hatchlings= , most of that first skin has
> >>>>>>> already= been shed, but she was fully covered with it and it has
> >>&= gt;>>>> only recently started splitting. We do think it hinders= her use
> >>>>>>> of her limbs -- her arms are= only about the size of thin pencil
> >>>>>>> l= ead, and the skin seems to fully coat those.
> >>>>>&g= t;>
> >>>>>>> She has been doing okay up unti= l the last couple of days, though,
> >>>>>>> wh= en the skin (I hope that it isn't something else, too) started
> >= ;>>>>>> really becoming a problem. She now gets around by= lurching her
> >>>>>>> body back and forth bec= ause her little arms & legs are still
> >>>>>>= > encased in the skin, although it has come off some of the back.
&g= t; >>>>>>> And she is green underneath, not gray!
&= gt; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We ha= ven't ever actually kept any of the geckos before, as they
> >>= ;>>>>> run all around our house, lanai and garden (Phelsuma = laticauda,
> >>>>>>> house - Hemidactylus frena= tus, & Mourning - Lepidodactylus
> >>>>>>> = lugubris). But we had to make an exception in her case, since she
> = >>>>>>> couldn't fend for herself. Usually we just tak= e the hatchlings
> >>>>>>> outside so they have= a better chance of survival -- we have lots
> >>>>>&= gt;> of big geckos running around inside and they don't last long if > >>>>>>> we don't get to them first. :(
> &= gt;>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mahalo, Sh= erron
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= >
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&= gt;
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>> ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote:
&g= t; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> He= llo Sherron ~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>= >>>>> Try the humidity chamber trick. I can't view your phot= os at
> >>>>>>>> home because my laptop is r= eally memory-challenged, so I don't
> >>>>>>>&g= t; know how big this gecko is! However, my mourning geckos are 1"
> = >>>>>>>> 3/8" at hatching. Try placing your gecko i= n a vented plastic
> >>>>>>>> container with= a damp washcloth inside. Place this near a
> >>>>>&g= t;>> light. Almost immediately you will notice beads of water
>= ; >>>>>>>> accumulate on the sides/top of the conta= iner. After a few hours
> >>>>>>>> or so per= haps you can remove the rings of old skin around her
> >>>&= gt;>>>> neck gently with a tweezers or small scissors.
> = >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> W= hat is the problem with her right leg? Might you have a new
> >&g= t;>>>>>> pet here?
> >>>>>>>&g= t;
> >>>>>>>> Elizabeth
> >>>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subj:[geck= o]Question on hatchling Gold Dust Day Gecko having
> >>>>= ;>>>>> trouble shedding "egg skin"
> >>>>&= gt;>>>> Date:6/1/08 4:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> &g= t;>>>>>>>> From: gecko.hale@gmail.com (Sherron)
= > >>>>>>>>> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota= .com
> >>>>>>>>> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gek= kota.com <mailto:gecko@lists.gekkota.com>
> >>>>>= ;>>>> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>>>&= gt;>>>
> >>>>>>>> We found a tiny ha= tchling on May 13 that was a little
> >>>>>>>&g= t; underdeveloped and was still in that grayish skin they have when
>= ; >>>>>>>> they first come out of the shell. She wa= s dehydrated and has a
> >>>>>>>> problem wi= th her right leg, but is spunky.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We haven't been able to release her= outside like we do the rest
> >>>>>>>> of t= he hatchings we find, as her bad leg has kept her from being
> >&= gt;>>>>>> very mobile, but she has been doing pretty well= eating tiny bugs
> >>>>>>>> & aphids I = collect for her. She has also shown a real interest
> >>>&g= t;>>>> in the fruit flies around her papaya, but I don't think = she has
> >>>>>>>> managed to catch any yet.=
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>&= gt;> But she started having trouble yesterday and was real cold & > >>>>>>>> clammy, so we put a heating pad nea= r her cage to help warm her
> >>>>>>>> up. I= t seems to have started her molting her "egg skin", but she
> >&g= t;>>>>>> has a bunch of it around her neck that she can't= get off.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>= >>>> Is there anything we can do to help her? She is so tiny we= don't
> >>>>>>>> see how we could try to cu= t it off! The rest of the skin except
> >>>>>>>= > for around her neck should slough off okay, but the stuff around
&= gt; >>>>>>>> her neck is several layers and is a ri= ng, so it may be another
> >>>>>>>> matter. = :(
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= ;>> Any help would be greatly appreciated as she is really a spunky <= BR>> >>>>>>>> little girl.
> >>>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mahalo, Sherro= n
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>= >>
> >>>>>>>> ~~~geckos make my heart s= ing (and dance)~~~
> >>>>>>>>
> >>= ;>>>>>> l l
> >>>>>>>> l ^= ^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^
> >>>>>>>> ^^ /..\ ^^
&= gt; >>>>>>>> l l ^^ llll
> >>>>&= gt;>>> \\\ l l llll ///
> >>>>>>>> l= l llll \\\
> >>>>>>>> l l ~~ llll ///
>= ; >>>>>>>> ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~
> >>>= ;>>>>> ) ( )
> >>>>>>>> ( ) (<= BR>> >>>>>>>> ) ( )
> >>>>>= >>> lappert(a) robert(a)
> >>>>>>>>= hubert(a)
> >>>>>>>> 17.50 yo
> >&= gt;>>>>>> r.i.p. r.i.p.
> >>>>>>&= gt;> (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)
> >>>>>>>= >
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>= >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>&= gt;>>>>
> >>>>>>>> **************=
> >>>>>>>> Get trade secrets for amazing bur= gers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
> >>>>>>>> F= lorence" on AOL Food.
> >>>>>>>> (http://food= .aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod00030000000002)
>= ; >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
= > >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
&= gt; >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
&g= t; >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------= ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>><= BR>> >>>>>>> Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii= (on the Big Island of
> >>>>>>> Hawaii)
>= ; >>>>>>> Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - <= BR>> >>>>>>> mailto:gecko@hale-pohaku.com
> &= gt;>>>>>> See our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/rat= gallery.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>&= gt;>> ---------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>= ;>> Stay informed, get connected and more with AOL on your phone
= > >>>>>>> <http://mobile.aol.com/productOverview= .jsp?productOverview=3Daol-mobile-overview&?&ncid=3Daolmbd000300000= 00139>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>&g= t;>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ___________= ____________________________________
> >>>>>> Globa= l Gecko Association
> >>>>>> http://www.gekkota.com=
> >>>>>> Classifieds
> >>>>>&= gt; http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> >>>= >>> gecko mailing list
> >>>>>> gecko@list= s.gekkota.com
> >>>>>> http://lists.gekkota.com/mai= lman/listinfo/gecko
> >>>>>>
> >>>&g= t;>
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________= _____________________________
> >>>> Global Gecko Associa= tion
> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com
> >>>&g= t; Classifieds
> >>>> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/= classifieds.cgi
> >>>> gecko mailing list
> >>= ;>> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >>>> http://lists.gek= kota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
> >>>>
> >>&g= t;
> >>
> >>
> >> _____________________= __________________________
> >> Global Gecko Association
>= ; >> http://www.gekkota.com
> >> Classifieds
> >= > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> >> ge= cko mailing list
> >> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> >> = http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
> >>
> &g= t;
>
> _______________________________________________
>= ; Global Gecko Association
> http://www.gekkota.com
> Classifie= ds
> http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
> gecko= mailing list
> gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> http://lists.gekkota.= com/mailman/listinfo/gecko

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Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi= ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add them now!
Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback.= Search Now! = --_8d8230ae-2423-4ce3-8940-5c294043892c_-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 20:41:59 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Christenson, Greg) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:41:59 -0500 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8CD8D.8BD716A7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jacob Summers has been removed from the list for violating the GGA rules of good conduct. =20 Greg Christenson GGA Webmaster =20 From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of Jay Sommers Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:06 PM To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! =20 Oh yeah, =20 One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;) =20 =20 GECKOsRUL ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8CD8D.8BD716A7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jacob Summers has been removed from the list for = violating the GGA rules of good conduct.

Greg Christenson

GGA Webmaster

From:= gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] = On Behalf Of Jay Sommers
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:06 PM
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!

Oh yeah,

One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to = Hawaii.;)

   GECKOsRUL

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8CD8D.8BD716A7-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 21:02:28 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (cobalt) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:02:28 -0700 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!
THANK YOU!!!!! That was just waaaay over the top.

Nothing like random viciousness towards nice people to get your point across (and his point was ???)...

-cobalt

Jacob Summers has been removed from the list for violating the GGA rules of good conduct.

Greg Christenson

GGA Webmaster

From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of Jay Sommers
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:06 PM
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating!

Oh yeah,

One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;)

   GECKOsRUL

From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 21:25:56 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (yehudah werner) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gecko]Euthanasia - for the GGA? Message-ID: <41994.47274.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-2095384890-1213388756=:47274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all including J.S., I see a futile long chain of past messages titled "Euthanasia for distressed geckos" dragging and pingponged endlessly but actually lamenting the supposed demise of the GGA. I don't understand what exactly the complaints are about, nor why anybody dissatisfied does not propose (and maybe offer) specific improvements the moment the dissatisfaction attains threshold. Actually the GGA just like other societies is a group sharing interests flocking together for joint benefit, around a small group of caring and able volunteers who serve the public by keeping the thing going. What the GGA does and does not do (e.g. meetings) derives largely from its global nature. Of course such volunteers can be defined as having self-interest - they derive satisfaction from serving a public cause. I see no justification for nor utility in just slinging mud at them, and that at a time when many feel a shortage of water. This site could be more useful for comunication if people would title their messages correctly, and not encumber them with endless chains of message history. Cheers, Yehudah Yehudah L. Werner Professor Emeritus of Zoology Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 91904 Jerusalem, Israel Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct) Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office) e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576 --0-2095384890-1213388756=:47274 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear all including J.S.,

    I see a futile long chain of past messages titled "Euthanasia for distressed geckos" dragging and pingponged endlessly but actually lamenting the supposed demise of the GGA. I don't understand what exactly the complaints are about, nor why anybody dissatisfied does not propose (and maybe offer) specific improvements the moment the dissatisfaction attains threshold.

    Actually the GGA just like other societies is a group sharing interests flocking together for joint benefit, around a small group of caring and able volunteers who serve the public by keeping the thing going. What the GGA does and does not do (e.g. meetings) derives largely from its global nature. Of course such volunteers can be defined as having self-interest - they derive satisfaction from serving a public cause. I see no justification for nor utility in just slinging mud at them, and that at a time when many feel a shortage of water.

    This site could be more useful for comunication if people would title their messages correctly, and not encumber them with endless chains of message history.

    Cheers, Yehudah

Yehudah L. Werner
Professor Emeritus of Zoology
Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
91904 Jerusalem, Israel
Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct)
Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office)
e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com
Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576
--0-2095384890-1213388756=:47274-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Jun 13 23:52:28 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:52:28 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Euthanasia - for the GGA? In-Reply-To: <41994.47274.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <41994.47274.qm@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA9BBF49F9B723-90C-215F@webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com> ----------MB_8CA9BBF4A5B785A_90C_41E4_webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Yehudah ~ I feel I did entitle?my thread "Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos" correctly and exactly how I meant it.? Mine was a second post?in recent weeks?requesting the best means for putting the actual geckos out of their misery.? If I interpret your post correctly, you may have not taken it that way.? Certainly not all readers did.? I intended no "hidden" reference to the Global Gecko Association.? Folks who know me would probably agree. I am sorry that other folks erroneously expanded on the title to my thread. In Geckos We Trust, Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: yehudah werner To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 1:25 pm Subject: [gecko]Euthanasia - for the GGA? Dear all including J.S., ??? I see a futile long chain of past messages titled "Euthanasia for distressed geckos" dragging and pingponged endlessly but actually lamenting the supposed demise of the GGA. I don't understand what exactly the complaints are about, nor why anybody dissatisfied does not propose (and maybe offer) specific improvements the moment the dissatisfaction attains threshold. ??? Actually the GGA just like other societies is a group sharing interests?flocking together for joint benefit, around a small group of caring and able volunteers who serve the public by keeping the thing going. What the GGA does and does not do (e.g. meetings) derives largely from its global nature. Of course such volunteers can be defined as having self-interest - they derive satisfaction from serving a public cause. I see no justification for nor utility in just slinging mud at them, and that at a time when many?feel a shortage of water.? ??? This site could be more useful for comunication if people would title their messages correctly, and not encumber them with endless chains of message history. ??? Cheers, Yehudah ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Yehudah L. Werner Professor Emeritus of Zoology Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 91904 Jerusalem, Israel Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct) Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office) e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576 ----------MB_8CA9BBF4A5B785A_90C_41E4_webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Yehudah ~

I feel I did entitle my thread "Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos" correctly and exactly how I meant it. Mine was a second post in recent weeks requesting the best means for putting the actual geckos out of their misery. If I interpret your post correctly, you may have not taken it that way. Certainly not all readers did. I intended no "hidden" reference to the Global Gecko Association. Folks who know me would probably agree.

I am sorry that other folks erroneously expanded on the title to my thread.

In Geckos We Trust,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: yehudah werner <yehudah_w@yahoo.com>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 1:25 pm
Subject: [gecko]Euthanasia - for the GGA?

Dear all including J.S.,

    I see a futile long chain of past messages titled "Euthanasia for distressed geckos" dragging and pingponged endlessly but actually lamenting the supposed demise of the GGA. I don't understand what exactly the complaints are about, nor why anybody dissatisfied does not propose (and maybe offer) specific improvements the moment the dissatisfaction attains threshold.

    Actually the GGA just like other societies is a group sharing interests flocking together for joint benefit, around a small group of caring and able volunteers who serve the public by keeping the thing going. What the GGA does and does not do (e.g. meetings) derives largely from its global nature. Of course such volunteers can be defined as having self-interest - they derive satisfaction from serving a public cause. I see no justification for nor utility in just slinging mud at them, and that at a time when many feel a shortage of water.

    This site could be more useful for comunication if people would title their messages correctly, and not encumber them with endless chains of message history.

    Cheers, Yehudah

Yehudah L. Werner
Professor Emeritus of Zoology
Department of Evolution, Systematics and Ecology
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
91904 Jerusalem, Israel
Tel. 972-2-6585874 (direct)
Fax 972-2-6584741 (departmental office)
e-mail yehudah_w@yahoo.com
Home tel./fax 972-2-5665576

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----------MB_8CA9BBF4A5B785A_90C_41E4_webmail-nd18.sysops.aol.com-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Jun 14 07:40:00 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Melody Hartley) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:40:00 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! In-Reply-To: References: <48443A3F.9010804@gmail.com> <8CA92F8F6E6A3DF-14C8-141B@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> <4844E7C4.6080801@ix.netcom.com> <48486233.5000504@gmail.com> <48488FE5.3070303@ix.netcom.com> <484B0873.6090501@gmail.com> <484B7E99.7050505@ix.netcom.com> <484C937B.2050404@gmail.com> <4852ABD5.2080400@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <485367C0.4000601@ix.netcom.com> Thank you! Christenson, Greg wrote: > Jacob Summers has been removed from the list for violating the GGA rules > of good conduct. > > > > Greg Christenson > > GGA Webmaster > > > > From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of Jay Sommers > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:06 PM > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Subject: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! > > > > Oh yeah, > > One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;) > > > GECKOsRUL > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Jun 14 07:00:32 2008 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:00:32 EDT Subject: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! Message-ID: -------------------------------1213423232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I second that....I understand that everyone has the right to their own opinion, but when that opinion is nothing more than a vicious attack which serves no purpose, then what's the point other than to hurt... How much anger and resentment must live inside a person to make them behave in such a way...it's actually quite sad... Socrates said, "The greatest gift one can give to the world is knowledge".The GGA and its members represent that. I just want everyone here to know that I greatly appreciate all the knowledge I've acquired on the listserve, through the chitchat, as well as, from the journals... and for those of you I've been fortunate enough to meet,the wealth of knowledge you've shared is priceless... In a message dated 6/14/2008 1:38:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mhartley@ix.netcom.com writes: Thank you! Christenson, Greg wrote: > Jacob Summers has been removed from the list for violating the GGA rules > of good conduct. > > > > Greg Christenson > > GGA Webmaster > > > > From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of Jay Sommers > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:06 PM > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Subject: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't cooperating! > > > > Oh yeah, > > One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to Hawaii.;) > > > GECKOsRUL > _______________________________________________ Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.com Classifieds http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi gecko mailing list gecko@lists.gekkota.com http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102) -------------------------------1213423232 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I second that....I understand that everyone has the right to thei= r=20 own opinion, but when that opinion is nothing more than a vic= ious=20 attack which serves no purpose, then what's the point other than to hur= t...=20
How much anger and resentment must live inside a person to make them be= have=20 in such a way...it's actually quite sad...

Socrates said, "The greatest gift one can give to the world is=20 knowledge".The GGA and its members represent that. I just want everyone here= to=20 know that I greatly appreciate all the knowledge I've acquired on the=20 listserve, through the chitchat, as well as, from the journals... and f= or=20 those of you I've been fortunate enough to meet,the wealth of knowledge you'= ve=20 shared is priceless...

In a message dated 6/14/2008 1:38:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 mhartley@ix.netcom.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Thank=20 you!

Christenson, Greg wrote:

> Jacob Summers has been=20 removed from the list for violating the GGA rules
> of good=20 conduct.
>
>
>
> Greg Christenson
>= =20
> GGA Webmaster
>
>
>
> From:=20 gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
> [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.c= om]=20 On Behalf Of Jay Sommers
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:06 PM
&g= t;=20 To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
> Subject: RE: [gecko]Li'i isn't=20 cooperating!
>
>
>
> Oh yeah,
>&nbs= p;=20
> One more thing...is it even legal to ship fruitflies to=20 Hawaii.;)
>
>
> GECKOsRUL
= >=20

_______________________________________________
Global Gecko=20 Association
http://www.gekkota.com
Classifieds
http://www.gekkota= .com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
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