Audrey Brown, L.V.T., L.A.T., C.M.
Animal Facility Manager
Biology Dept. - Central Michigan University
117 Brooks Hall
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859
989-774-2469
mailto:audrey.l.brown@cmich.edu

--=====================_40818063==.ALT-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 8 21:18:53 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 12:18:53 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Leopard Gecko Concern In-Reply-To: References: <194215.90000.qm@web83105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46BA10CE.9030409@davis.com> Message-ID: <46BA252D.4070704@davis.com> Audrey Brown wrote: > At 02:51 PM 8/8/2007, you wrote: > >> What kind of substrate, depth of substrate? Size of humid box? Are >> there any skin sloughs remaining during the behavior? I would >> sterilize the humid boxes, maybe some tiny pest has taken hold >> causing irritation to the gecko's skin. If you have access to a >> microscope maybe you could have a look at the remaining gecko's skin. > > > Hi Julie, > This girl is kept on newspaper. Her humid box is an Exo-Terra Snake Cave > which measures 9.8" x 7.4" x 4.7". The substrate inside is reptile > moss that > is replaced ~every 2 weeks. There is no skin remaining when this girl > goes > through a shed. We monitor all the leos closely because some do > retain skin > on their toes. When that happens we soak them & use blunt tweezers to > carefully > remove any remaining skin. > I will have her entire cage, including humid box, sanitized. I do > have a microscope > & will definitely take a closer look at her skin next time she sheds. > Thanks so much for the advice! > > > I would say the geckos with shed remaining on their toes likely do not have moist enough substrate to shed in, inspite of this particular girl not having skin shed on her toes it could be her issue also. I would try vermiculite. Reptile moss is likely not moisture retaining enough. An intelligent guess! Also the Exo-terra cave may allow too much air to circulate depending on the size of openings. You can experiment with using both substrates and see which on the geckos like better to see what I mean. They like a moist place to hang out, especially during the day. Julie B. > Audrey Brown, L.V.T., L.A.T., C.M. > Animal Facility Manager > Biology Dept. - Central Michigan University > 117 Brooks Hall > Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859 > 989-774-2469 > mailto:audrey.l.brown@cmich.edu > > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 8 23:20:45 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (William Boddy) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 18:20:45 -0400 Subject: [gecko]Leopard Gecko Concern In-Reply-To: <46BA0D48.3010706@davis.com> References: <194215.90000.qm@web83105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46BA0D48.3010706@davis.com> Message-ID: <20070808182045.6k91ue9hgggw4cow@webmail.uoguelph.ca> Hello. Would this type of humidity box work well for small geckoes such as Stenodactylus? Cheers, William Quoting Julie Bergman : > Moist hidebox sounds good. I do the same thing below except without > sand. Works on my long-term population of leo breeders. > > Julie B. > > red eye wrote: > >> I suggest you use a humid box. it is very simple & provides >> humidity for the gek which aids in sloughing off the shed - without >> it geks do lose toes unnecessarily. Get a small Tupperware >> container & drill a 1" - 1 1/2" hole in the top. Fill box loosely >> with pre moistened vermiculite & play sand to withing an inch or so >> of the top. You should be able to make a snowball of the mixture >> to insure you have the correct amount of water.The geks will stay >> in there all day long - they love it >> Regards, >> red-eye ...who has not posted in some years >> From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 9 02:32:56 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:32:56 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Leopard Gecko Concern In-Reply-To: <20070808182045.6k91ue9hgggw4cow@webmail.uoguelph.ca> References: <194215.90000.qm@web83105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46BA0D48.3010706@davis.com> <20070808182045.6k91ue9hgggw4cow@webmail.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <46BA6EC8.3030306@davis.com> Certainly would! I'll take some pix to show you some examples. Julie B. William Boddy wrote: > Hello. > > Would this type of humidity box work well for small geckoes such as > Stenodactylus? > > Cheers, > William > > Quoting Julie Bergman : > >> Moist hidebox sounds good. I do the same thing below except without >> sand. Works on my long-term population of leo breeders. >> >> Julie B. >> >> red eye wrote: >> >>> I suggest you use a humid box. it is very simple & provides >>> humidity for the gek which aids in sloughing off the shed - without >>> it geks do lose toes unnecessarily. Get a small Tupperware >>> container & drill a 1" - 1 1/2" hole in the top. Fill box loosely >>> with pre moistened vermiculite & play sand to withing an inch or so >>> of the top. You should be able to make a snowball of the mixture >>> to insure you have the correct amount of water.The geks will stay >>> in there all day long - they love it >>> Regards, >>> red-eye ...who has not posted in some years >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Global Gecko Association > http://www.gekkota.com > Classifieds > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi > gecko mailing list > gecko@lists.gekkota.com > http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko > > > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 9 11:43:06 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (red eye) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gecko]Leopard Gecko Concern Message-ID: <54417.19376.qm@web83115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-1996995289-1186656186=:19376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Burke,=0AYou ever get that CDT?=0Aregards=0Ared-eye=0A=0A=0A----- Origin= al Message ----=0AFrom: B K =0ATo: gecko@lists.gekkota.c= om=0ASent: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 10:31:28 AM=0ASubject: Re: [gecko]Leop= ard Gecko Concern=0A=0A=0AHI RED-EYE=0ABurke=0A=0Ared eye wrote:=0AI suggest you use a humid box. it is very simple & provides h= umidity for the gek which aids in sloughing off the shed - without it geks = do lose toes unnecessarily. Get a small Tupperware container & drill a 1" -= 1 1/2" hole in the top. Fill box loosely with pre moistened vermiculite & = play sand to withing an inch or so of the top. You should be able to make a= snowball of the mixture to insure you have the correct amount of water.The= geks will stay in there all day long - they love it =0A =0ARegards, =0Ared= -eye ...who has not posted in some years=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ---= -=0AFrom: Audrey Brown =0ATo: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=0ASent: Monday, August 6, 2007 10:26:30 AM=0ASubject: [gecko]Leopard G= ecko Concern=0A=0A=0AHi all,=0AI have a female Leopard gecko, approximately= 5 years of age, that=0Ajust recently began biting off toes when she sheds.= This has now=0Ahappened 3 times in the last 5-6 months. There have been = no changes=0Ain husbandry routine, diet, location, etc.=0A=0ASeveral years = ago, I had an adult male who began exhibiting this=0Asame behavior only he = would bite his thigh. It did not occur at every=0Ashed. The wound would h= eal, with medical intervention, but each=0Asuccessive episode resulted in i= ncreased damage to the thigh tissue.=0A=0AI can't circumvent this behavior = until I determine, if possible, what=0Aprecipitates the self-mutilation.=0A= =0ADoes anyone have any ideas, suggestions, or observed similar behavior in= =0Aany of your gex that you were able to stop? Sadly, it was necessary=0At= o euthanize the male. I would like to avoid having to do the same with=0At= his animal.=0A=0AThanks in advance!=0A=0A=0A=0AAudrey Brown, L.V.T., L.A.T.= , C.M.=0AAnimal Facility Manager=0ABiology Dept. - Central Michigan Univers= ity=0A117 Brooks Hall=0AMt. Pleasant, MI 48859=0A989-774-2469=0Amailto:aud= rey.l.brown@cmich.edu=0A =0A=0A___________________________________= ____________=0AGlobal Gecko Association=0Ahttp://www.gekkota.com=0AClassifi= eds=0Ahttp://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi=0Agecko mailing li= st=0Agecko@lists.gekkota.com=0Ahttp://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/ge= cko=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ADo not mettle in the affairs of Dragons, For you ar= e crunchy and taste good with Ketchup. =0A =0A =0AA censor is a man who k= nows more than he thinks you ought to.=0A-- Granville Hicks --0-1996995289-1186656186=:19376 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Burke,

=0A

You ever get that CDT= ?

=0A

regards

=0A

red-eye

=0A

----- Original Message ----
From: B K <atatboy@yahoo.com>
= To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 10:31:28 AM<= BR>Subject: Re: [gecko]Leopard Gecko Concern

=0A

HI RED-EYE=0A

Burke

red eye <red-eye@pacbell.net> wro= te:

=0A

=0A
=0A
I sugge= st you use a humid box. it is very simple & provides humidity for the g= ek which aids in sloughing off the shed - without it geks do lose toes unne= cessarily. Get a small Tupperware container & drill a 1" - 1 1/2" hole = in the top. Fill box loosely with pre moistened vermiculite & play = ;sand to withing an inch or so of the top. You should be able to make a sno= wball of the mixture to insure you have the correct amount of water.The gek= s will stay in there all day long - they love it
=0A
<= /DIV>=0A
Regards,
=0A
red-eye ...who has not posted= in some years

=0A
----- Original Message ----
Fro= m: Audrey Brown <audrey.l.brown@cmich.edu>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2007 10:26:30 AM
Subject: [gecko]Leopard= Gecko Concern

=0A
Hi all,
I have a female Leopard gecko, app= roximately 5 years of age, that
just recently began biting off toes when= she sheds.  This has now
happened 3 times in the last 5-6 mon= ths.  There have been no changes
in husbandry routine, diet, l= ocation, etc.

Several years ago, I had an adult male who began exhib= iting this
same behavior only he would bite his thigh.  It did= not occur at every
shed.  The wound would heal, with medical = intervention, but each
successive episode resulted in increased damage t= o the thigh tissue.

I can't circumvent this behavior until I determi= ne, if possible, what
precipitates the self-mutilation.

Does anyo= ne have any ideas, suggestions, or observed similar behavior in
any of y= our gex that you were able to stop?  Sadly, it was necessary
t= o euthanize the male.  I would like to avoid having to do the sam= e with
this animal.

Thanks in advance!

Audrey Brown, L.V.T., L.A= .T., C.M.
Animal Facility Manager
Biology Dept. - Central Michigan Un= iversity
117 Brooks Hall
Mt. Pleasant, MI  48859
989-774= -2469
mailto:audrey.l.brown@cmich.edu
     &= nbsp;

______________________________________= _________
Global Gecko Association
http://www.gekkota.com
Classifieds<= BR>http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi
gecko mailing list
gecko@lists.gekkota.com
http:= //lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
=0A

=

=0A

Do not mettle in the affairs o= f Dragons, For you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup. =0A

=0A

A censor is a man who kn= ows more than he thinks you ought to.
-- Granville Hicks &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p;

<= /DIV>=0A

--0-1996995289-1186656186=:19376-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 16:16:31 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:16:31 -0400 Subject: [gecko]leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_31304_24321467.1186845391974 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have a male leopard gecko who has spent the last two days laying in his water dish. This is very uncharacteristic of him and I'm very worried. The temperatures in his tank are normal (low to mid 80's cool end where the water dish is, high 80's to low 90's on the warm end). He's not ready to shed and it's been plenty humid around here, so that's not the issue either. He's on reptile carpet so it's not sand impaction. His diet is mealworms and crickets. My girls, who are in separate tanks next to him, all seem to be fine. I've called around and the earliest vet appointment I can get for him is Monday. Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong, and what I might be able to do for him in the meantime? Thanks, -Jessica (and Peanut) ------=_Part_31304_24321467.1186845391974 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have a male leopard gecko who has spent the last two days laying in his water dish. This is very uncharacteristic of him and I'm very worried.

The temperatures in his tank are normal (low to mid 80's cool end where the water dish is, high 80's to low 90's on the warm end). He's not ready to shed and it's been plenty humid around here, so that's not the issue either. He's on reptile carpet so it's not sand impaction. His diet is mealworms and crickets. My girls, who are in separate tanks next to him, all seem to be fine.

I've called around and the earliest vet appointment I can get for him is Monday. Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong, and what I might be able to do for him in the meantime?

Thanks,

-Jessica (and Peanut)
------=_Part_31304_24321467.1186845391974-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 18:01:15 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:01:15 -0800 Subject: [gecko]leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46BDEB5B.2080000@davis.com> I'd say your cool end is kinda warm. What size is his terrarium? How are you measuring the temps? Does he have a humid box to shed in? How is is weight and body condition in general? Julie B. argente wrote: > I have a male leopard gecko who has spent the last two days laying in > his water dish. This is very uncharacteristic of him and I'm very > worried. > > The temperatures in his tank are normal (low to mid 80's cool end > where the water dish is, high 80's to low 90's on the warm end). He's > not ready to shed and it's been plenty humid around here, so that's > not the issue either. He's on reptile carpet so it's not sand > impaction. His diet is mealworms and crickets. My girls, who are in > separate tanks next to him, all seem to be fine. > > I've called around and the earliest vet appointment I can get for him > is Monday. Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong, and what I > might be able to do for him in the meantime? > > Thanks, > > -Jessica (and Peanut) From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 17:35:10 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:35:10 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_31912_20995197.1186850110746 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks, Julie. Our AC is broken so it is hot and sticky in the whole house right now. Not sure of his weight, but he's a big boy with a fat tail; no major loss or gains lately. I looked him over and didn't see any obvious signs of trauma. He's in a 10x20" (will be moving to a larger tank when I move next week) by himself with a log hide and a log to climb on and sit under on the warm end. There's not enough room for a separate humid box but I mist his tank during the shedding period and he's never had any trouble with shedding. Temps are measured with thermometer strips at gecko height on the inside of each end of the tank. I just took a look and it's saying 81 by the water dish and 85 under the lamp. Should I move my fan into the gecko room for the time being? I did turn the lamp off for a while but put it back on after I had him out to look at him this morning because he felt pretty cold. The girls' lamps are still off and their temps read 80 everywhere. They are all in their regular hiding places and seem as active as usual. -Jessica I'd say your cool end is kinda warm. What size is his terrarium? How are > you measuring the temps? Does he have a humid box to shed in? How is is > weight and body condition in general? > > Julie B. > > ------=_Part_31912_20995197.1186850110746 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Thanks, Julie.

Our AC is broken so it is hot and sticky in the whole= house right now. Not sure of his weight, but he's a big boy with= a fat tail; no major loss or gains lately. I looked him over and did= n't see any obvious signs of trauma. He's in a 10x20" (w= ill be moving to a larger tank when I move next week) by himself with a log= hide and a log to climb on and sit under on the warm end. There'= s not enough room for a separate humid box but I mist his tank during the s= hedding period and he's never had any trouble with shedding. Temp= s are measured with thermometer strips at gecko height on the inside of eac= h end of the tank. I just took a look and it's saying 81 by the w= ater dish and 85 under the lamp. Should I move my fan into the gecko = room for the time being? I did turn the lamp off for a while but put = it back on after I had him out to look at him this morning because he felt = pretty cold. The girls' lamps are still off and their temps read = 80 everywhere. They are all in their regular hiding places and seem a= s active as usual.

-Jessica

I'd say your cool end is kinda warm. What size is his terra=
rium? How are=20

you measuring the temps? Does he have a humid box to shed in? How is is=
 
weight and body condition in general?

Julie B.
------=_Part_31912_20995197.1186850110746-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 19:26:09 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:26:09 -0800 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46BDFF41.4050203@davis.com> argente wrote: > Thanks, Julie. > > Our AC is broken so it is hot and sticky in the whole house right > now. Not sure of his weight, but he's a big boy with a fat tail; no > major loss or gains lately. I looked him over and didn't see any > obvious signs of trauma. He's in a 10x20" (will be moving to a larger > tank when I move next week) by himself with a log hide and a log to > climb on and sit under on the warm end. A bigger set-up does sounds good to create a better temperature gradient. > There's not enough room for a separate humid box but I mist his tank > during the shedding period and he's never had any trouble with shedding. He would still like it though. It provides them a measure of comfort as well as helping them shed. It is very natural for lizards to be in moist hiding spot during hot parts of the day. I'd say he'd choose this over the water dish. > Temps are measured with thermometer strips at gecko height on the > inside of each end of the tank. I just took a look and it's saying 81 > by the water dish and 85 under the lamp. Here's the deal with temp strips - they can be way off, as much as 20 deg. They are useful to see if you have a temp. gradient though mounted in the places you have mounted them. Use a mercury-type fish tank thermometer (about $5 at any place that sells fish), a probe type from Radio Shack or a laser temp device like Pro Exotics sells. > Should I move my fan into the gecko room for the time being? I did > turn the lamp off for a while but put it back on after I had him out > to look at him this morning because he felt pretty cold. The girls' > lamps are still off and their temps read 80 everywhere. They are all > in their regular hiding places and seem as active as usual. I'd find out what the more accurate measured temps are and adjust accordingly. Julie B. > > -Jessica > >I'd say your cool end is kinda warm. What size is his terrarium? How are > >you measuring the temps? Does he have a humid box to shed in? How is is >weight and body condition in general? > >Julie B. > > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 18:36:08 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Pat Christianson) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:36:08 -0700 Subject: [gecko]leo wallowing in water dish References: <46BDEB5B.2080000@davis.com> Message-ID: <011701c7dc3e$1c492ff0$0bced742@VALUEDA9767827> where do you live? Pat From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 22:41:27 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:41:27 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_33384_3145470.1186868487416 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Maryland, just outside DC. where do you live? > > Pat > > ------=_Part_33384_3145470.1186868487416 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Maryland, just outside DC.

where do you live?

Pat
------=_Part_33384_3145470.1186868487416-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 11 22:51:31 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:51:31 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_33448_26547533.1186869091542 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I will install a moist hide once I have him in the bigger enclosure. He has moved out of his water bowl and is now just laying by the side of it, even though it's actually hotter now than when I last checked on him. I'm off to petco to see if I can get better thermometers. Does this definitely sound like a temperature issue? It just seems odd that he's the only one of 5 acting strangely. (I'm going to address the things you've brought up anyway of course, and I'm keeping the vet appointment on Monday just to be safe. I want my guy to be happy and healthy.) -Jessica argente wrote: > > >* Thanks, Julie. > *>* > *>* Our AC is broken so it is hot and sticky in the whole house right > *>* now. Not sure of his weight, but he's a big boy with a fat tail; no > *>* major loss or gains lately. I looked him over and didn't see any > *>* obvious signs of trauma. He's in a 10x20" (will be moving to a larger > *>* tank when I move next week) by himself with a log hide and a log to > *>* climb on and sit under on the warm end. > * > A bigger set-up does sounds good to create a better temperature gradient. > > >* There's not enough room for a separate humid box but I mist his tank > *>* during the shedding period and he's never had any trouble with shedding. > * > He would still like it though. It provides them a measure of comfort as > well as helping them shed. It is very natural for lizards to be in moist > hiding spot during hot parts of the day. I'd say he'd choose this over > the water dish. > > >* Temps are measured with thermometer strips at gecko height on the > *>* inside of each end of the tank. I just took a look and it's saying 81 > *>* by the water dish and 85 under the lamp. > * > Here's the deal with temp strips - they can be way off, as much as 20 > deg. They are useful to see if you have a temp. gradient though mounted > in the places you have mounted them. Use a mercury-type fish tank > thermometer (about $5 at any place that sells fish), a probe type from > Radio Shack or a laser temp device like Pro Exotics sells. > > >* Should I move my fan into the gecko room for the time being? I did > *>* turn the lamp off for a while but put it back on after I had him out > *>* to look at him this morning because he felt pretty cold. The girls' > *>* lamps are still off and their temps read 80 everywhere. They are all > *>* in their regular hiding places and seem as active as usual. > * > I'd find out what the more accurate measured temps are and adjust > accordingly. > > Julie B. > > ------=_Part_33448_26547533.1186869091542 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I will install a moist hide once I have him in the bigger enclosure. He has moved out of his water bowl and is now just laying by the side of it, even though it's actually hotter now than when I last checked on him. I'm off to petco to see if I can get better thermometers. Does this definitely sound like a temperature issue? It just seems odd that he's the only one of 5 acting strangely. (I'm going to address the things you've brought up anyway of course, and I'm keeping the vet appointment on Monday just to be safe. I want my guy to be happy and healthy.)

-Jessica

argente wrote:

> Thanks, Julie.
>
> Our AC is broken so it is hot and sticky in the whole house right
> now. Not sure of his weight, but he's a big boy with a fat tail; no
> major loss or gains lately. I looked him over and didn't see any
> obvious signs of trauma. He's in a 10x20" (will be moving to a larger
> tank when I move next week) by himself with a log hide and a log to
> climb on and sit under on the warm end.

A bigger set-up does sounds good to create a better temperature gradient.

> There's not enough room for a separate humid box but I mist his tank
> during the shedding period and he's never had any trouble with shedding.

He would still like it though. It provides them a measure of comfort as
well as helping them shed. It is very natural for lizards to be in moist
hiding spot during hot parts of the day. I'd say he'd choose this over
the water dish.

> Temps are measured with thermometer strips at gecko height on the
> inside of each end of the tank. I just took a look and it's saying 81
> by the water dish and 85 under the lamp.

Here's the deal with temp strips - they can be way off, as much as 20
deg. They are useful to see if you have a temp. gradient though mounted
in the places you have mounted them. Use a mercury-type fish tank
thermometer (about $5 at any place that sells fish), a probe type from
Radio Shack or a laser temp device like Pro Exotics sells.

> Should I move my fan into the gecko room for the time being? I did
> turn the lamp off for a while but put it back on after I had him out
> to look at him this morning because he felt pretty cold. The girls'
> lamps are still off and their temps read 80 everywhere. They are all
> in their regular hiding places and seem as active as usual.

I'd find out what the more accurate measured temps are and adjust
accordingly.

Julie B.
------=_Part_33448_26547533.1186869091542-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sun Aug 12 02:57:09 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:57:09 -0800 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46BE68F5.30900@davis.com> Not sure this is a temp issue although you need to rule out that your temps may be off. Males are usually thicker-bodied so yes a temp issue may show up in them first. Whenever stuff like this happens you have to go back to the basics and make sure all the parameters are correct. Often times there is a basic error that is uncovered and explains strange behavior or lack of normal behavior. Julie B. argente wrote: >I will install a moist hide once I have him in the bigger enclosure. He has >moved out of his water bowl and is now just laying by the side of it, even >though it's actually hotter now than when I last checked on him. I'm off to >petco to see if I can get better thermometers. Does this definitely sound >like a temperature issue? It just seems odd that he's the only one of 5 >acting strangely. (I'm going to address the things you've brought up anyway >of course, and I'm keeping the vet appointment on Monday just to be safe. I >want my guy to be happy and healthy.) > >-Jessica > > >argente wrote: > > >>>* Thanks, Julie. >>> >>> >>*>* >>*>* Our AC is broken so it is hot and sticky in the whole house right >>*>* now. Not sure of his weight, but he's a big boy with a fat tail; no >>*>* major loss or gains lately. I looked him over and didn't see any >>*>* obvious signs of trauma. He's in a 10x20" (will be moving to a larger >>*>* tank when I move next week) by himself with a log hide and a log to >>*>* climb on and sit under on the warm end. >>* >>A bigger set-up does sounds good to create a better temperature gradient. >> >> >> >>>* There's not enough room for a separate humid box but I mist his tank >>> >>> >>*>* during the shedding period and he's never had any trouble with shedding. >>* >>He would still like it though. It provides them a measure of comfort as >>well as helping them shed. It is very natural for lizards to be in moist >>hiding spot during hot parts of the day. I'd say he'd choose this over >>the water dish. >> >> >> >>>* Temps are measured with thermometer strips at gecko height on the >>> >>> >>*>* inside of each end of the tank. I just took a look and it's saying 81 >>*>* by the water dish and 85 under the lamp. >>* >>Here's the deal with temp strips - they can be way off, as much as 20 >>deg. They are useful to see if you have a temp. gradient though mounted >>in the places you have mounted them. Use a mercury-type fish tank >>thermometer (about $5 at any place that sells fish), a probe type from >>Radio Shack or a laser temp device like Pro Exotics sells. >> >> >> >>>* Should I move my fan into the gecko room for the time being? I did >>> >>> >>*>* turn the lamp off for a while but put it back on after I had him out >>*>* to look at him this morning because he felt pretty cold. The girls' >>*>* lamps are still off and their temps read 80 everywhere. They are all >>*>* in their regular hiding places and seem as active as usual. >>* >>I'd find out what the more accurate measured temps are and adjust >>accordingly. >> >>Julie B. >> >> >> >> > > > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sun Aug 12 15:39:15 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 10:39:15 -0400 Subject: [gecko]leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C9AB05B107EC0D-4E8-38B5@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> ----------MB_8C9AB05B107EC0D_4E8_71B9_MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jessica, ?? Lizards laying in a water dish is usually (not always) associated with mite infesttions. Look for little white, red or brownish little bugs crawling on the gecko. Ron -----Original Message----- From: argente To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sent: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 8:16 am Subject: [gecko]leo wallowing in water dish I have a male leopard gecko who has spent the last two days laying in his water dish.? This is very uncharacteristic of him and I'm very worried.? The temperatures in his tank are normal (low to mid 80's cool end where the water dish is, high 80's to low 90's on the warm end).? He's not ready to shed and it's been plenty humid around here, so that's not the issue either.? He's on reptile carpet so it's not sand impaction.? His diet is mealworms and crickets.? My girls, who are in separate tanks next to him, all seem to be fine. I've called around and the earliest vet appointment I can get for him is Monday.? Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong, and what I might be able to do for him in the meantime? Thanks, -Jessica (and Peanut) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ----------MB_8C9AB05B107EC0D_4E8_71B9_MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Jessica,
   Lizards laying in a water dish is usually (not always) associated with mite infesttions. Look for little white, red or brownish little bugs crawling on the gecko.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: argente <argente@gmail.com>
To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Sent: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 8:16 am
Subject: [gecko]leo wallowing in water dish

I have a male leopard gecko who has spent the last two days laying in his water dish. This is very uncharacteristic of him and I'm very worried.

The temperatures in his tank are normal (low to mid 80's cool end where the water dish is, high 80's to low 90's on the warm end). He's not ready to shed and it's been plenty humid around here, so that's not the issue either. He's on reptile carpet so it's not sand impaction. His diet is mealworms and crickets. My girls, who are in separate tanks next to him, all seem to be fine.

I've called around and the earliest vet appointment I can get for him is Monday. Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong, and what I might be able to do for him in the meantime?

Thanks,

-Jessica (and Peanut)

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

----------MB_8C9AB05B107EC0D_4E8_71B9_MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Aug 13 06:25:06 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:25:06 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_42729_15225168.1186982706720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ron (and Julie), Thanks for the suggestion, but no bugs in sight. I completely disinfected his tank and everything in it, just in case. I also moved a fan into the gecko room and gave Peanut a makeshift moist hide so he can be more comfortable until we move. He has probably got the nicest space in the house now! He does seem a bit less lethargic today though he did spend more time in his water dish and ignored his mealworms. He hasn't had a solid poop in two days but he hasn't been eating either. We see the vet this afternoon - I'll let you all know what he says. Thanks again, -Jessica Jessica, > ?? Lizards laying in a water dish is usually (not always) associated with > mite infesttions. Look for little white, red or brownish little bugs > crawling on the gecko. > > Ron ------=_Part_42729_15225168.1186982706720 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ron (and Julie),

Thanks for the suggestion, but no bugs in sight. I completely disinfected his tank and everything in it, just in case. I also moved a fan into the gecko room and gave Peanut a makeshift moist hide so he can be more comfortable until we move. He has probably got the nicest space in the house now! He does seem a bit less lethargic today though he did spend more time in his water dish and ignored his mealworms. He hasn't had a solid poop in two days but he hasn't been eating either. We see the vet this afternoon - I'll let you all know what he says.

Thanks again,

-Jessica

Jessica,
?? Lizards laying in a water dish is usually (not always) associated with mite infesttions. Look for little white, red or brownish little bugs crawling on the gecko.

Ron
------=_Part_42729_15225168.1186982706720-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Aug 13 08:50:35 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 03:50:35 EDT Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: --part1_c44.1c8221f8.33f1674b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica ~ Peanut is a lucky guy to have such thorough caregivers! Let us know what the vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taking care of reptiles. Elizabeth > Subj:[gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish > Date:8/12/07 10:26:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: argente@gmail.com (argente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Ron (and Julie), > > Thanks for the suggestion, but no bugs in sight. I completely disinfected > his tank and everything in it, just in case. I also moved a fan into the > gecko room and gave Peanut a makeshift moist hide so he can be more comfortable > until we move. He has probably got the nicest space in the house now! He > does seem a bit less lethargic today though he did spend more time in his water > dish and ignored his mealworms. He hasn't had a solid poop in two days but > he hasn't been eating either. We see the vet this afternoon - I'll let you > all know what he says. > > Thanks again, > > -Jessica > > > >> Jessica, >> ?? Lizards laying in a water dish is usually (not always) associated with >> mite infesttions. Look for little white, red or brownish little bugs crawling >> on the gecko. >> >> > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c44.1c8221f8.33f1674b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica ~

Peanut is a lucky guy to have such thorough caregivers! Let us kno= w what the vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taki= ng care of reptiles.

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]re: leo wall= owing in water dish
Date:8/12/07 10:26:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    argente@gmail.com (argente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Ron (and Julie),

Thanks for the suggestion, but no bugs in sight. I completely disi= nfected his tank and everything in it, just in case. I also moved a fa= n into the gecko room and gave Peanut a makeshift moist hide so he can be mo= re comfortable until we move. He has probably got the nicest space in=20= the house now! He does seem a bit less lethargic today though he did s= pend more time in his water dish and ignored his mealworms. He hasn't=20= had a solid poop in two days but he hasn't been eating either. We see=20= the vet this afternoon - I'll let you all know what he says.=20

Thanks again,

-Jessica

Jessica,
?? Lizards laying in a water dish is usually (not always) associated wit= h mite infesttions. Look for little white, red or brownish little bugs crawl= ing on the gecko.

Ron

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c44.1c8221f8.33f1674b_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Aug 13 23:08:07 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:08:07 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_57734_33305677.1187042887564 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks Elizabeth. Peanut was my first gecko and he means a lot to me so I really want to do everything I can for him. Peanut is still very lethargic and is unusually smelly. I thought it may have just been his tank but that's been very thoroughly bleached and it's definitely Peanut himself. My vet is an ARAV member and has had leos of his own, and he has taken good care of one of my girls in the past. Today he took an x-ray, which he said looked really good and showed no signs of obstruction. Peanut was good enough to produce a fecal sample en route to the vet's office, so that and bloodwork are on their way to the lab. I should have results on Thursday. -Jessica Jessica ~ > > Peanut is a lucky guy to have such thorough caregivers! Let us know what the > vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taking care of > reptiles. > > Elizabeth > > ------=_Part_57734_33305677.1187042887564 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks Elizabeth.

Peanut was my first gecko and he means a lot to me so I really want to do everything I can for him. Peanut is still very lethargic and is unusually smelly. I thought it may have just been his tank but that's been very thoroughly bleached and it's definitely Peanut himself. My vet is an ARAV member and has had leos of his own, and he has taken good care of one of my girls in the past. Today he took an x-ray, which he said looked really good and showed no signs of obstruction. Peanut was good enough to produce a fecal sample en route to the vet's office, so that and bloodwork are on their way to the lab. I should have results on Thursday.

-Jessica

Jessica ~

Peanut is a lucky guy to have such thorough caregivers! Let us know what the
vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taking care of
reptiles.

Elizabeth
------=_Part_57734_33305677.1187042887564-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Mon Aug 13 23:26:00 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (L. Christenson) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:26:00 -0500 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401c7ddf8$ed939ad0$1b01a8c0@LLDG.local> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C7DDCF.04BD92D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the symptoms of Cryptosporidiosis is very smelly feces (making the gecko smell) and lethargy. Crypto also causes "intestinal ache" which may be a reason for the unusual soaking. As crypto may be a possibility, all quarantine precautions should be exercised. Ask you vet to check for this also. Bleach does not kill crypto. Common household ammonia can. Leann _____ From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of argente Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:08 PM To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Thanks Elizabeth. Peanut was my first gecko and he means a lot to me so I really want to do everything I can for him. Peanut is still very lethargic and is unusually smelly. I thought it may have just been his tank but that's been very thoroughly bleached and it's definitely Peanut himself. My vet is an ARAV member and has had leos of his own, and he has taken good care of one of my girls in the past. Today he took an x-ray, which he said looked really good and showed no signs of obstruction. Peanut was good enough to produce a fecal sample en route to the vet's office, so that and bloodwork are on their way to the lab. I should have results on Thursday. -Jessica Jessica ~ Peanut is a lucky guy to have such thorough caregivers! Let us know what the vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taking care of reptiles. Elizabeth ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C7DDCF.04BD92D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of the symptoms of = Cryptosporidiosis=20 is very smelly feces (making the gecko smell) and lethargy. = Crypto=20 also causes "intestinal ache" which may be a reason for the unusual=20 soaking. As crypto may be a possibility, all quarantine = precautions should=20 be exercised. Ask you vet to check for this = also.

Bleach does not kill crypto. Common = household ammonia=20 can.

Leann

From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20 [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of=20 argente
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:08 = PM
To:=20 gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in = water=20 dish

Thanks Elizabeth.

Peanut was my first gecko and = he=20 means a lot to me so I really want to do everything I can for him. = Peanut=20 is still very lethargic and is unusually smelly. I thought it may = have=20 just been his tank but that's been very thoroughly bleached and it's = definitely=20 Peanut himself. My vet is an ARAV member and has had leos of his = own, and=20 he has taken good care of one of my girls in the past. Today he = took an=20 x-ray, which he said looked really good and showed no signs of=20 obstruction. Peanut was good enough to produce a fecal sample en = route to=20 the vet's office, so that and bloodwork are on their way to the = lab. I=20 should have results on Thursday.

-Jessica

Jessica ~

Peanut is a lucky guy = to have such thorough caregivers! Let us know what the=20
vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taking care = of
reptiles.

Elizabeth
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C7DDCF.04BD92D0-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Tue Aug 14 01:12:45 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:12:45 -0800 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: <002401c7ddf8$ed939ad0$1b01a8c0@LLDG.local> References: <002401c7ddf8$ed939ad0$1b01a8c0@LLDG.local> Message-ID: <46C0F37D.9070508@davis.com> The vet should do the test for crypto, make sure they did. It is a separate test from the normal fecal exam. Most shedding parasites will cause smelly poop so it does sound like something has the upper hand regarding your gecko's health. Hopefully it is something easy to treat like pinworms. If your gecko has good body weight then there is something for the vet to work with. Julie B. L. Christenson wrote: > One of the symptoms of Cryptosporidiosis is very smelly feces (making > the gecko smell) and lethargy. Crypto also causes "intestinal ache" > which may be a reason for the unusual soaking. As crypto may be a > possibility, all quarantine precautions should be exercised. Ask you > vet to check for this also. > > Bleach does not kill crypto. Common household ammonia can. > > Leann > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of argente > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:08 PM > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish > > Thanks Elizabeth. > > Peanut was my first gecko and he means a lot to me so I really want to > do everything I can for him. Peanut is still very lethargic and is > unusually smelly. I thought it may have just been his tank but that's > been very thoroughly bleached and it's definitely Peanut himself. My > vet is an ARAV member and has had leos of his own, and he has taken > good care of one of my girls in the past. Today he took an x-ray, > which he said looked really good and showed no signs of obstruction. > Peanut was good enough to produce a fecal sample en route to the vet's > office, so that and bloodwork are on their way to the lab. I should > have results on Thursday. > > -Jessica > >Jessica ~ > >Peanut is a lucky guy to have such thorough caregivers! Let us know what the > >vet says. Hopefully you've found a vet with experience taking care of >reptiles. > >Elizabeth > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Tue Aug 14 13:37:00 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:37:00 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_64340_21129947.1187095020669 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks Leann and Julie. I will call the vet now and ask for that test. Peanut is housed alone but I'll further separate him from the other tanks and resanitize everything with ammonia. I've already pared down his tank furniture and he's on paper towels. We really appreciate the advice. -Jessica The vet should do the test for crypto, make sure they did. It is a > separate test from the normal fecal exam. Most shedding parasites will > cause smelly poop so it does sound like something has the upper hand > regarding your gecko's health. Hopefully it is something easy to treat > like pinworms. If your gecko has good body weight then there is > something for the vet to work with. > > Julie B. > > L. Christenson wrote: > > >* One of the symptoms of Cryptosporidiosis is very smelly feces (making > *>* the gecko smell) and lethargy. Crypto also causes "intestinal ache" > *>* which may be a reason for the unusual soaking. As crypto may be a > *>* possibility, all quarantine precautions should be exercised. Ask you > *>* vet to check for this also. > *>* > *>* Bleach does not kill crypto. Common household ammonia can. > *>* > *>* Leann > *>* > *>* * > > ------=_Part_64340_21129947.1187095020669 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks Leann and Julie.

I will call the vet now and ask for that test. Peanut is housed alone but I'll further separate him from the other tanks and resanitize everything with ammonia. I've already pared down his tank furniture and he's on paper towels. We really appreciate the advice.

-Jessica

The vet should do the test for crypto, make sure they did. It is a
separate test from the normal fecal exam. Most shedding parasites will
cause smelly poop so it does sound like something has the upper hand
regarding your gecko's health. Hopefully it is something easy to treat
like pinworms. If your gecko has good body weight then there is
something for the vet to work with.

Julie B.

L. Christenson wrote:

> One of the symptoms of Cryptosporidiosis is very smelly feces (making
> the gecko smell) and lethargy. Crypto also causes "intestinal ache"
> which may be a reason for the unusual soaking. As crypto may be a
> possibility, all quarantine precautions should be exercised. Ask you
> vet to check for this also.
>
> Bleach does not kill crypto. Common household ammonia can.
>
> Leann
>
>
------=_Part_64340_21129947.1187095020669-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 15 01:08:56 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Joseph Loucek) Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <399874.42039.qm@web37903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-260486084-1187136536=:42039 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jessica - I just checked my email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my two cents. My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate controlled separate from the house (i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in somehow). If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. I think I remember something about complete drying also being important. You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, too. I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb always first). Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more sanitary. If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be). Good luck, Joe Joe "of these things that walk upon the earth you shall not touch ...the gecko" Leviticus 11:30 --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. --0-260486084-1187136536=:42039 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jessica -

I just checked my email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my two cents.

My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate controlled separate from the house (i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in somehow).

If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. I think I remember something about complete drying also being important.

You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, too.

I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb always first).

Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more sanitary.

If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be).

Good luck,

Joe

Joe
"of these things that walk upon the earth you shall not touch
...the gecko" Leviticus 11:30

Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids. --0-260486084-1187136536=:42039-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 15 18:26:34 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:26:34 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Message-ID: ------=_Part_52068_4549077.1187198794628 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Joe, I'm not a large scale keeper, I only have Peanut and 4 girls (all cb), so the animal room is just the spare bedroom and has no separate controls. As I mentioned we are moving to a new house tonight where the room temperatures should stay in the 77-80 degree range. The lights aren't on timers. I'd like to switch to under tank heat strips on thermostats but that's just not in the budget at this point. The girls are in two separate tanks, and all of their cage furniture/ bowls are kept separated and cleaned regularly. When I spoke to the vet yesterday he said he thought crypto was pretty low in the list of possibilities. Peanut's still in his water dish and hasn't eaten; the vet gave him fluids. Unfortunately when I checked on the girls today I found several little piles of regurgitated worms. They all seem pretty freaked out, which is possibly the stress of a move happening around them (I've tried to keep this to a minimum). I really hope this is just because they made little pigs of themselves yesterday but we are all going back to the vet first thing in the morning. Each gecko is now in her own plastic tub on paper towels with just a hide box and water dish until this is figured out. Fingers and toes are crossed that all of my babies come through this ok. I would be devastated to lose them. Thanks everyone, -Jessica, Peanut, Rocky, Ellipsis, Carrots, and Smiley Jessica - > > I just checked my email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my two cents. > > My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate controlled separate from the house (i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in somehow). > > If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. I think I remember something about complete drying also being important. > > You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, too. > > I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb always first). > > Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more sanitary. > > If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be). > > Good luck, > > Joe > > > Joe > "of these things that walk upon the earth you shall not touch > ...the gecko" Leviticus 11:30 > > ------=_Part_52068_4549077.1187198794628 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Hi Joe,

I'm not a large scale keeper, I only have Peanut and 4 girls (all cb), so the animal room is just the spare bedroom and has no separate controls. As I mentioned we are moving to a new house tonight where the room temperatures should stay in the 77-80 degree range. The lights aren't on timers. I'd like to switch to under tank heat strips on thermostats but that's just not in the budget at this point. The girls are in two separate tanks, and all of their cage furniture/ bowls are kept separated and cleaned regularly.

When I spoke to the vet yesterday he said he thought crypto was pretty low in the list of possibilities. Peanut's still in his water dish and hasn't eaten; the vet gave him fluids. Unfortunately when I checked on the girls today I found several little piles of regurgitated worms. They all seem pretty freaked out, which is possibly the stress of a move happening around them (I've tried to keep this to a minimum). I really hope this is just because they made little pigs of themselves yesterday but we are all going back to the vet first thing in the morning. Each gecko is now in her own plastic tub on paper towels with just a hide box and water dish until this is figured out.

Fingers and toes are crossed that all of my babies come through this ok. I would be devastated to lose them.

Thanks everyone,

-Jessica, Peanut, Rocky, Ellipsis, Carrots, and Smiley

Jessica -

I just checked my email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my two cents.

My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate controlled separate from the house ( i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in somehow).

If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. I think I remember something about complete drying also being important.

You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, too.

I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb always first).

Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more sanitary.

If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be).

Good luck,

Joe

Joe
"of these things that walk upon the earth you shall not touch
...the gecko" Leviticus 11:30
------=_Part_52068_4549077.1187198794628-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 15 19:03:30 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:03:30 -0400 Subject: [gecko]parasite sources Message-ID: ------=_Part_52576_277833.1187201010442 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello all, Thinking about my sick geckos and looking forward, if this is a parasite issue can anyone give me some clues as to where it might have come from? I've been wracking my brain for changes in their routine lately.. These geckos have all been together for several years and are my only animals. The only contact they have with each other is that the girls who are not housed together are temporarily together when I'm cleaning the tanks. Peanut is never in with the girls. They eat crickets (from petco) and mealworms (raised by me and occasionally supplemented with some from petco but that hasn't happened in months). Their water dishes are filled with bottled spring water. I've been on the same bottles of vitamins & calcium supplement for a while now. The mealworms are in a plastic tub filled with a mixture of oatmeal, fish food, cricket food, and vegetables for moisture (carrots and potatoes). I did add new oatmeal to the worm bin recently. I get crickets in small batches as treats so they don't stick around long. I don't wash my hands between animals usually but I'm pretty good about washing before/after. Aside from while their tanks are being cleaned, Peanut doesn't get handled much since he bit me in January; I take the girls out probably a few times a month. They don't ever run free in the house. I haven't gotten anything new for their cages in a long time. There are no plants in the tanks, just logs, "rock" hides, wood hides, and plastic moist hides with paper towels to hold moisture. They are all on reptile carpet with paper towels over that are changed at least once a week. The girls have a ceramic food dish in addition to their calcium dish; peanut just has the calcium because he won't eat from a dish. I could probably clean their tank furniture more often and will step up my schedule for that, but their water dishes are washed with every refill. I clean the tanks with a bleach solution & rinse; I guess I should start alternating that with ammonia soaks? The carpets go through a hot washer cycle once in a while. Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. -Jessica ------=_Part_52576_277833.1187201010442 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello all,

Thinking about my sick geckos and looking forward, if this is a parasite issue can anyone give me some clues as to where it might have come from? I've been wracking my brain for changes in their routine lately..

These geckos have all been together for several years and are my only animals. The only contact they have with each other is that the girls who are not housed together are temporarily together when I'm cleaning the tanks. Peanut is never in with the girls.

They eat crickets (from petco) and mealworms (raised by me and occasionally supplemented with some from petco but that hasn't happened in months). Their water dishes are filled with bottled spring water. I've been on the same bottles of vitamins & calcium supplement for a while now. The mealworms are in a plastic tub filled with a mixture of oatmeal, fish food, cricket food, and vegetables for moisture (carrots and potatoes). I did add new oatmeal to the worm bin recently. I get crickets in small batches as treats so they don't stick around long.

I don't wash my hands between animals usually but I'm pretty good about washing before/after. Aside from while their tanks are being cleaned, Peanut doesn't get handled much since he bit me in January; I take the girls out probably a few times a month. They don't ever run free in the house.

I haven't gotten anything new for their cages in a long time. There are no plants in the tanks, just logs, "rock" hides, wood hides, and plastic moist hides with paper towels to hold moisture. They are all on reptile carpet with paper towels over that are changed at least once a week. The girls have a ceramic food dish in addition to their calcium dish; peanut just has the calcium because he won't eat from a dish.

I could probably clean their tank furniture more often and will step up my schedule for that, but their water dishes are washed with every refill. I clean the tanks with a bleach solution & rinse; I guess I should start alternating that with ammonia soaks? The carpets go through a hot washer cycle once in a while.

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

-Jessica
------=_Part_52576_277833.1187201010442-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 15 23:45:13 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:45:13 -0800 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C381F9.6050905@davis.com> Regurge is a sign of stress which is really common with moving. If they were not doing this prior to the move then I think that is your explanation for that behavior. Julie B. argente wrote: > > Hi Joe, > > I'm not a large scale keeper, I only have Peanut and 4 girls (all cb), > so the animal room is just the spare bedroom and has no separate > controls. As I mentioned we are moving to a new house tonight where > the room temperatures should stay in the 77-80 degree range. The > lights aren't on timers. I'd like to switch to under tank heat strips > on thermostats but that's just not in the budget at this point. The > girls are in two separate tanks, and all of their cage furniture/ > bowls are kept separated and cleaned regularly. > > When I spoke to the vet yesterday he said he thought crypto was pretty > low in the list of possibilities. Peanut's still in his water dish > and hasn't eaten; the vet gave him fluids. Unfortunately when I > checked on the girls today I found several little piles of > regurgitated worms. They all seem pretty freaked out, which is > possibly the stress of a move happening around them (I've tried to > keep this to a minimum). I really hope this is just because they made > little pigs of themselves yesterday but we are all going back to the > vet first thing in the morning. Each gecko is now in her own plastic > tub on paper towels with just a hide box and water dish until this is > figured out. > > Fingers and toes are crossed that all of my babies come through this > ok. I would be devastated to lose them. > > Thanks everyone, > > -Jessica, Peanut, Rocky, Ellipsis, Carrots, and Smiley > >Jessica - > > I just checked my email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my two cents. > >My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate controlled separate from the house ( >i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in somehow). > > >If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. I think I remember something about complete drying also being important. > > >You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, too. > > >I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb always first). > >Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more sanitary. > > >If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be). > > >Good luck, > >Joe > > >Joe >"of these things that walk upon the earth you shall not touch >...the gecko" Leviticus 11:30 > From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 15 22:43:35 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (L. Christenson) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:43:35 -0500 Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004801c7df85$584a57a0$1b01a8c0@LLDG.local> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C7DF5B.6F744FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope your vet will reconsider crypto - regurgitated food is an early sign. I have nursed five leopard geckos back to health from late stage crypto infection. It is possible. With only a few leopards and the possibility of keeping them separated, you stand a good chance to do the same. Hopefully, once you get them settled and they are used to their new surroundings, things will stabilize. I keep hoping that its all stress. Leann _____ From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of argente Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:27 PM To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in water dish Hi Joe, I'm not a large scale keeper, I only have Peanut and 4 girls (all cb), so the animal room is just the spare bedroom and has no separate controls. As I mentioned we are moving to a new house tonight where the room temperatures should stay in the 77-80 degree range. The lights aren't on timers. I'd like to switch to under tank heat strips on thermostats but that's just not in the budget at this point. The girls are in two separate tanks, and all of their cage furniture/ bowls are kept separated and cleaned regularly. When I spoke to the vet yesterday he said he thought crypto was pretty low in the list of possibilities. Peanut's still in his water dish and hasn't eaten; the vet gave him fluids. Unfortunately when I checked on the girls today I found several little piles of regurgitated worms. They all seem pretty freaked out, which is possibly the stress of a move happening around them (I've tried to keep this to a minimum). I really hope this is just because they made little pigs of themselves yesterday but we are all going back to the vet first thing in the morning. Each gecko is now in her own plastic tub on paper towels with just a hide box and water dish until this is figured out. Fingers and toes are crossed that all of my babies come through this ok. I would be devastated to lose them. Thanks everyone, -Jessica, Peanut, Rocky, Ellipsis, Carrots, and Smiley Jessica - I just checked my email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my two cents. My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate controlled separate from the house ( i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in somehow). If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. I think I remember something about complete drying also being important. You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, too. I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb always first). Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more sanitary. If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be). Good luck, Joe Joe "of these things that walk upon the earth you shall not touch ...the gecko" Leviticus 11:30 ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C7DF5B.6F744FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I hope your vet will reconsider crypto - = regurgitated food=20 is an early sign.

I have nursed five leopard geckos back to = health from late=20 stage crypto infection. It is possible. With only a few = leopards and=20 the possibility of keeping them separated, you stand a good chance to do = the=20 same.

Hopefully, once you get them settled and they = are used to=20 their new surroundings, things will stabilize. I keep hoping that = its all=20 stress.

Leann

From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20 [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of=20 argente
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:27 = PM
To:=20 gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: [gecko]re: leo wallowing in = water=20 dish

Hi Joe,

I'm not a large scale keeper, I only have = Peanut=20 and 4 girls (all cb), so the animal room is just the spare bedroom and = has no=20 separate controls. As I mentioned we are moving to a new house = tonight=20 where the room temperatures should stay in the 77-80 degree range. = The=20 lights aren't on timers. I'd like to switch to under tank heat = strips on=20 thermostats but that's just not in the budget at this point. The = girls are=20 in two separate tanks, and all of their cage furniture/ bowls are kept = separated=20 and cleaned regularly.

When I spoke to the vet yesterday he said = he=20 thought crypto was pretty low in the list of possibilities. = Peanut's still=20 in his water dish and hasn't eaten; the vet gave him fluids. = Unfortunately=20 when I checked on the girls today I found several little piles of = regurgitated=20 worms. They all seem pretty freaked out, which is possibly the = stress of a=20 move happening around them (I've tried to keep this to a minimum). = I=20 really hope this is just because they made little pigs of themselves = yesterday=20 but we are all going back to the vet first thing in the morning. = Each=20 gecko is now in her own plastic tub on paper towels with just a hide box = and=20 water dish until this is figured out.

Fingers and toes are = crossed that=20 all of my babies come through this ok. I would be devastated to = lose=20 them.

Thanks everyone,

-Jessica, Peanut, Rocky, Ellipsis, = Carrots,=20 and Smiley

Jessica -

I just checked my = email today. Following the thread, it sounds like you're doing = everything you can, and are following a lot of good advice. Here's my = two cents.

My first thought was that the tank was too hot. I = think I read that the cage is in your animal room - is this room climate = controlled separate from the house ( i.e., heated for the animals)? I think I also read that you have a heat = lamp on the cage? I think I would put the light on a timer, only coming = on from like midnight til 7-8 AM, at least through the rest of the = summer. If DC is anything like Cleveland, it is extemely hot and = miserable, and if the ambient room temps is that high, you really don't = need an additional hotspot. I propose a timer because here, the nights = are still a bit chilly. If the room is climate controlled, I wouldn't = use a light at all (in the summer, at least), especially on a male (a = producing female, I'd definitely try to work an additional hot spot in = somehow).

If you do disinfect with ammonia, contact time is extremely = important to be effective in the treatment of crypto. I don't recall = what it is, but you want to make sure you allow adequate contact time. = I think I remember something about complete drying also being important.

You also want to keep in mind the order of feeding/care. You = don't want to spread anything further along, and you also want to rule = out anyone else having anything. While crypto can be dormant for along = time, and may just now showing its ugly face (assuming it is crypto), = you want to rule out that it wasn't spread to this animal through common = husbandry maintenance. For example, I found that I would get into a = routine and always work the animals in the same order. You want to be = cognizant of the animals you typically work before and after this one in = trying to find "patient zero". This paragraph holds true for mites, = too.

I knew a guy who actually washed his hands between every cage. = I never took it to that extreme, except between wc and cb cages (cb = always first).

Also, I would probably stop using "cage carpet". = It is a real pain to disinfect. I'd go with either newspaper or paper = towel. Not nearly as aesthetically pleasing, but a heck of a lot more = sanitary.

If it turns out to be nothing, consider it a "wake-up call". If = it is something, I hope it all works out for the best, but you still = want to nip it early to prevent an epidemic (of whatever it might be).

Good luck,

Joe

Joe
"of these things that = walk upon the earth you shall not touch
...the gecko" Leviticus = 11:30
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C7DF5B.6F744FA0-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 16 00:07:40 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:07:40 -0800 Subject: [gecko]parasite sources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C3873C.8000800@davis.com> I think you are getting little ahead of the game here. Wait for a diagnosis and prognosis, then work with the vet to implement a treatment plan. Geckos come with parasites and salmonella, that is the way mother nature built them. Normally they live with these conditions just fine, well into their teens and 20s if everything is optimal for them. Once a stressor occurs, for example: moving, geckos not getting along with each other, some other medical condition; then, the parasites and other stuff like salmonella that lives in geckos naturally will start to get the upper hand and start impacting the gecko's health. The vet will be looking at the parasite load to see how many are present and if that is something that needs to be treated. Crypto, as many have pointed out here in this discussion, would be the one parasite leopard geckos have a hard time living with. All other common gecko parasites like pinworms are treatable if the gecko is in good body condition. It is always a good idea to keep a clean terrarium, that helps keep parasites to keep from becoming a problem. Your attention to the food bins is good too, keep them clean also. As long as we are broaching that subject, oatmeal is not great as a food for the mealworms. Stick with a proven gutload like Repashy Insect Gutload for that function. I use leafy greens and carrots for moisture, the gel cubes and such are a waste of $ IMHO. Julie B. argente wrote: > Hello all, > > Thinking about my sick geckos and looking forward, if this is a > parasite issue can anyone give me some clues as to where it might have > come from? I've been wracking my brain for changes in their routine > lately.. > > These geckos have all been together for several years and are my only > animals. The only contact they have with each other is that the girls > who are not housed together are temporarily together when I'm cleaning > the tanks. Peanut is never in with the girls. > > They eat crickets (from petco) and mealworms (raised by me and > occasionally supplemented with some from petco but that hasn't > happened in months). Their water dishes are filled with bottled > spring water. I've been on the same bottles of vitamins & calcium > supplement for a while now. The mealworms are in a plastic tub filled > with a mixture of oatmeal, fish food, cricket food, and vegetables for > moisture (carrots and potatoes). I did add new oatmeal to the worm > bin recently. I get crickets in small batches as treats so they don't > stick around long. > > I don't wash my hands between animals usually but I'm pretty good > about washing before/after. Aside from while their tanks are being > cleaned, Peanut doesn't get handled much since he bit me in January; I > take the girls out probably a few times a month. They don't ever run > free in the house. > > I haven't gotten anything new for their cages in a long time. There > are no plants in the tanks, just logs, "rock" hides, wood hides, and > plastic moist hides with paper towels to hold moisture. They are all > on reptile carpet with paper towels over that are changed at least > once a week. The girls have a ceramic food dish in addition to their > calcium dish; peanut just has the calcium because he won't eat from a > dish. > > I could probably clean their tank furniture more often and will step > up my schedule for that, but their water dishes are washed with every > refill. I clean the tanks with a bleach solution & rinse; I guess I > should start alternating that with ammonia soaks? The carpets go > through a hot washer cycle once in a while. > > Any thoughts/suggestions welcome. > > -Jessica From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 16 03:18:38 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:18:38 EDT Subject: [gecko]Insect Gutloads Message-ID: --part1_d43.104394b5.33f50dfe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie ~ Why do you say this about oatmeal and mealworms? What about Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Feed, alfalfa hay-kob, and dry oatmeal as a gutload for crickets? Long ago I crossed off Tetramin Fish Flakes when one of two leopoard geckos (the male) housed together died from severe gout. Though this may not have been the cause of the gout, the Tetramin Fish Flakes are 48% protein and we all know that more is not necessarily better. The female, Cha-cha-cha, is still doing well. Sometimes I add fresh carrots and collard greens to my cricket gutload. Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_d43.104394b5.33f50dfe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julie ~

Why do you say this about oatmeal and mealworms?

What about Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Feed, alfalfa hay-kob, and dry=20= oatmeal as a gutload for crickets? Long ago I crossed of= f Tetramin Fish Flakes when one of two leopoard geckos (the male) housed tog= ether died from severe gout. Though this may not have been the cause o= f the gout, the Tetramin Fish Flakes are 48% protein and we all know that mo= re is not necessarily better. The female, Cha-cha-cha, is still doing=20= well.

Sometimes I add fresh carrots and collard greens to my cricket gutload.

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_d43.104394b5.33f50dfe_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 16 06:16:25 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Julie Bergman) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:16:25 -0800 Subject: [gecko]Insect Gutloads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C3DDA9.2020501@davis.com> There are good gutloads available - I had been using Susan Donoghue's Walkabout Farms Gutload until she stopped doing the foods. Then along came Allen Repashy's Insect Gutload - everything you need in one bag, comes in all kinds of convenient sizes. As a breeder I don't have time to make up a mix of stuff so this suits. I'm sure the Fluker's product is fine. I use the same thing for both mealworms and crickets. Julie B. ElizabethFreer@aol.com wrote: > Julie ~ > > Why do you say this about oatmeal and mealworms? > > What about Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Feed, alfalfa hay-kob, and > dry oatmeal as a gutload for crickets? Long ago I crossed off > Tetramin Fish Flakes when one of two leopoard geckos (the male) housed > together died from severe gout. Though this may not have been the > cause of the gout, the Tetramin Fish Flakes are 48% protein and we all > know that more is not necessarily better. The female, Cha-cha-cha, is > still doing well. > > Sometimes I add fresh carrots and collard greens to my cricket gutload. > > Elizabeth > ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ > > l l l > ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ > l l ^^ llll \\\ > l l llll /// > l l llll \\\ > l l ~~ llll /// > ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ > ) ( ) > ( ) ( > ) ( ) > lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) > 17.50 yo r.i.p. > r.i.p. > > (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!) > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** > Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 16 23:18:09 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:18:09 -0400 Subject: [gecko]speaking of gout... Message-ID: ------=_Part_67136_8407920.1187302689332 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I just got back from the entire crew's trip to the vet. First the good news: the girls all seem to be fine, just jumpy from the move. He took a blood sample from Carrots just to be sure, since she is the most subdued. Rocky is on the other end of the spectrum, waving her tail and running about frantically. On inspection they all look healthy so unless Carrots' tests show something it's back to business as usual with the girls. I'll have results on Monday. Someone (either Rocky, Ellipsis, or Smiley) regurgitated some worms on the way home though. Now the not good news. Peanut has a very high white blood cell count and major signs of kidney disease. The vet thinks it's a particular kind of gout where crystals enter the tissue (I forget the name he said). He also has pinworms. Vet prescribed Fortaz, with subcutaenous injections every other day, which I'm not looking forward to doing. Peanut's weight was down from 84g to 76g since Monday (he hasn't eaten anything in that span) so I'll also start syringe feeding him Carnivore Care. He's even more listless and I'm really worried about him by the vet was pretty optimistic. We go in for a follow-up on Tuesday. If he's not doing any better by then we will revisit crypto as a possibility. My vet doesn't like to test for it since he feels the test is unreliable enough to be useless. If the current treatment doesn't help I'm going to insist on the test anyway. In the meantime I will switch my mealworms to a different gutload (or at least start the transition since picking them all out of their current bedding is pretty impossible). Can they live in the Repashy diet or do they need to be taken out and gutloaded separately before feeding? Thanks to everyone for your helpful and hopeful comments. I feel much better knowing that I have a panel of experts helping me along. -Jessica ------=_Part_67136_8407920.1187302689332 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I just got back from the entire crew's trip to the vet. First the good news: the girls all seem to be fine, just jumpy from the move. He took a blood sample from Carrots just to be sure, since she is the most subdued. Rocky is on the other end of the spectrum, waving her tail and running about frantically. On inspection they all look healthy so unless Carrots' tests show something it's back to business as usual with the girls. I'll have results on Monday. Someone (either Rocky, Ellipsis, or Smiley) regurgitated some worms on the way home though.

Now the not good news. Peanut has a very high white blood cell count and major signs of kidney disease. The vet thinks it's a particular kind of gout where crystals enter the tissue (I forget the name he said). He also has pinworms. Vet prescribed Fortaz, with subcutaenous injections every other day, which I'm not looking forward to doing. Peanut's weight was down from 84g to 76g since Monday (he hasn't eaten anything in that span) so I'll also start syringe feeding him Carnivore Care. He's even more listless and I'm really worried about him by the vet was pretty optimistic. We go in for a follow-up on Tuesday. If he's not doing any better by then we will revisit crypto as a possibility. My vet doesn't like to test for it since he feels the test is unreliable enough to be useless. If the current treatment doesn't help I'm going to insist on the test anyway.

In the meantime I will switch my mealworms to a different gutload (or at least start the transition since picking them all out of their current bedding is pretty impossible). Can they live in the Repashy diet or do they need to be taken out and gutloaded separately before feeding?

Thanks to everyone for your helpful and hopeful comments. I feel much better knowing that I have a panel of experts helping me along.

-Jessica
------=_Part_67136_8407920.1187302689332-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Aug 17 01:33:58 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:33:58 EDT Subject: [gecko]speaking of gout... Message-ID: --part1_c0a.1e2d238b.33f646f6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica ~ Sorry to hear about Peanut. There is a moist pellet food called Insectivore Fare especially for insectivorous animals and often available in one pound size bags from your vet. Zoos often use this. It is manufactured by Reliable Protein Products. Water can be added to achieve the consistency you need. Sorry that I don't have the link. I am unfamiliar with Carnivore Care. When my male leopard died from severe gout a couple years ago the only thing I could trace an abundance to was the 48% protein in the Tetramin Fish Flakes I occasionally fed the crickets. I think I read that fish flakes was also part of your insect gutload. For some reason, my male leopard succumbed to gout, yet my female did not and is doing well to this day. I did notice his lethargy and not eating. Rocky was way too big for his water dish! The more we know the better we can care for our critters! Elizabeth > Subj:[gecko]speaking of gout... > Date:8/16/07 3:37:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: argente@gmail.com (argente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > I just got back from the entire crew's trip to the vet. First the good > news: the girls all seem to be fine, just jumpy from the move. He took a blood > sample from Carrots just to be sure, since she is the most subdued. Rocky is > on the other end of the spectrum, waving her tail and running about > frantically. On inspection they all look healthy so unless Carrots' tests show > something it's back to business as usual with the girls. I'll have results on > Monday. Someone (either Rocky, Ellipsis, or Smiley) regurgitated some worms on > the way home though. > > Now the not good news. Peanut has a very high white blood cell count and > major signs of kidney disease. The vet thinks it's a particular kind of gout > where crystals enter the tissue (I forget the name he said). He also has > pinworms. Vet prescribed Fortaz, with subcutaenous injections every other day, > which I'm not looking forward to doing. Peanut's weight was down from 84g to > 76g since Monday (he hasn't eaten anything in that span) so I'll also start > syringe feeding him Carnivore Care. He's even more listless and I'm really > worried about him by the vet was pretty optimistic. We go in for a follow-up > on Tuesday. If he's not doing any better by then we will revisit crypto as a > possibility. My vet doesn't like to test for it since he feels the test is > unreliable enough to be useless. If the current treatment doesn't help I'm > going to insist on the test anyway. > > In the meantime I will switch my mealworms to a different gutload (or at > least start the transition since picking them all out of their current bedding > is pretty impossible). Can they live in the Repashy diet or do they need to > be taken out and gutloaded separately before feeding? > > Thanks to everyone for your helpful and hopeful comments. I feel much > better knowing that I have a panel of experts helping me along. > > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c0a.1e2d238b.33f646f6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica ~

Sorry to hear about Peanut. There is a moist pellet food called In= sectivore Fare especially for insectivorous animals and often available in o= ne pound size bags from your vet. Zoos often use this. It is man= ufactured by Reliable Protein Products. Water can be added to achieve=20= the consistency you need. Sorry that I don't have the link. I am= unfamiliar with Carnivore Care.=20

When my male leopard died from severe gout a couple years ago the only t= hing I could trace an abundance to was the 48% protein in the Tetramin Fish=20= Flakes I occasionally fed the crickets. I think I read that fish flake= s was also part of your insect gutload. For some reason, my male leopa= rd succumbed to gout, yet my female did not and is doing well to this day. &= nbsp;I did notice his lethargy and not eating. Rocky was way too big f= or his water dish!

The more we know the better we can care for our critters!

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]speaking of=20= gout...
Date:8/16/07 3:37:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    argente@gmail.com (argente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

I just got back from the entire crew's trip to the vet. First the=20= good news: the girls all seem to be fine, just jumpy from the move. &n= bsp;He took a blood sample from Carrots just to be sure, since she is the mo= st subdued. Rocky is on the other end of the spectrum, waving her tail= and running about frantically. On inspection they all look healthy so= unless Carrots' tests show something it's back to business as usual with th= e girls. I'll have results on Monday. Someone (either Rocky, Ell= ipsis, or Smiley) regurgitated some worms on the way home though.=20

Now the not good news. Peanut has a very high white blood cell cou= nt and major signs of kidney disease. The vet thinks it's a particular= kind of gout where crystals enter the tissue (I forget the name he said). &= nbsp;He also has pinworms. Vet prescribed Fortaz, with subcutaenous in= jections every other day, which I'm not looking forward to doing. Pean= ut's weight was down from 84g to 76g since Monday (he hasn't eaten anything=20= in that span) so I'll also start syringe feeding him Carnivore Care. H= e's even more listless and I'm really worried about him by the vet was prett= y optimistic. We go in for a follow-up on Tuesday. If he's not d= oing any better by then we will revisit crypto as a possibility. My ve= t doesn't like to test for it since he feels the test is unreliable enough t= o be useless. If the current treatment doesn't help I'm going to insis= t on the test anyway.=20

In the meantime I will switch my mealworms to a different gutload (or at= least start the transition since picking them all out of their current bedd= ing is pretty impossible). Can they live in the Repashy diet or do the= y need to be taken out and gutloaded separately before feeding?=20

Thanks to everyone for your helpful and hopeful comments. I feel m= uch better knowing that I have a panel of experts helping me along.

-Jessica

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c0a.1e2d238b.33f646f6_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Aug 17 15:15:54 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:15:54 -0400 Subject: [gecko]peanut :( Message-ID: ------=_Part_74628_16884409.1187360154909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Peanut passed away last night. He didn't even crawl out of his transportation dish so it must have been not long after we got back from the vet. He didn't even close his eyes. I'm bringing him to the vet for a necropsy today. So far the girls are ok but I want to take every precaution. -Jessica ------=_Part_74628_16884409.1187360154909 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Peanut passed away last night. He didn't even crawl out of his transportation dish so it must have been not long after we got back from the vet. He didn't even close his eyes. I'm bringing him to the vet for a necropsy today. So far the girls are ok but I want to take every precaution.

-Jessica
------=_Part_74628_16884409.1187360154909-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Aug 17 15:55:23 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (Mark Eden) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:55:23 -0700 Subject: [gecko]peanut :( In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000901c7e0de$a5a62880$6600a8c0@buggs> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C7E0A3.F9475080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are so sorry for your loss. We know that you did everything you could for Peanut. _________ Mark Eden _____ From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] On Behalf Of argente Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:16 AM To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com Subject: [gecko]peanut :( Peanut passed away last night. He didn't even crawl out of his transportation dish so it must have been not long after we got back from the vet. He didn't even close his eyes. I'm bringing him to the vet for a necropsy today. So far the girls are ok but I want to take every precaution. -Jessica ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C7E0A3.F9475080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We are so sorry for your loss. We = know that you did everything you could for Peanut. =

_________

Mark = Eden

From: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com [mailto:gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com] = On Behalf Of argente
Sent: Friday, August 17, = 2007 7:16 AM
To: = gecko@lists.gekkota.com
Subject: [gecko]peanut = :(

Peanut passed away last night. He didn't even crawl out of = his transportation dish so it must have been not long after we got back from = the vet. He didn't even close his eyes. I'm bringing him to the = vet for a necropsy today. So far the girls are ok but I want to take every precaution.

-Jessica

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C7E0A3.F9475080-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Aug 17 18:09:13 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:09:13 EDT Subject: [gecko]peanut :( Message-ID: --part1_d3f.112e4367.33f73039_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica ~ I am sorry that Peanut is gone. You have done so incredibly much for him!! Wish that all geckos were as fortunate. I'll be interested in hearing the results of his necropsy. Are you also doing the histopathology? What does your vet say about the cause of Peanut's gout? My sad thoughts are with you, his girlfriends, and your family. Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_d3f.112e4367.33f73039_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica ~

I am sorry that Peanut is gone. You have done so incredibly much f= or him!! Wish that all geckos were as fortunate. I'll be i= nterested in hearing the results of his necropsy. Are you also doing t= he histopathology?

What does your vet say about the cause of Peanut's gout?

My sad thoughts are with you, his girlfriends, and your family.

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_d3f.112e4367.33f73039_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Fri Aug 17 19:07:08 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:07:08 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: peanut :( Message-ID: ------=_Part_77148_14044478.1187374028317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you Elizabeth, Mark, and Audrey for your very kind words. I said goodbye to Peanut at the vet's this morning. I had nearly 5 very happy years with him, and a scar on my hand to remember him by (never thought I'd be happy about that part). The vet is going to perform a necropsy and tissue cultures, definitely of the kidneys and anything else that looks abnormal. I'm sad that I won't get him back for a proper burial, but I need to be sure that whatever took him does not get the same chance with my girls. Carrots' lab results will be back on Monday and they are all getting fresh crickets tonight. -Jessica http://www.flickr.com/photos/bunnysquirrel/tags/peanut/show/ ------=_Part_77148_14044478.1187374028317 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you Elizabeth, Mark, and Audrey for your very kind words. I said goodbye to Peanut at the vet's this morning. I had nearly 5 very happy years with him, and a scar on my hand to remember him by (never thought I'd be happy about that part). The vet is going to perform a necropsy and tissue cultures, definitely of the kidneys and anything else that looks abnormal. I'm sad that I won't get him back for a proper burial, but I need to be sure that whatever took him does not get the same chance with my girls. Carrots' lab results will be back on Monday and they are all getting fresh crickets tonight.

-Jessica

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bunnysquirrel/tags/peanut/show/
------=_Part_77148_14044478.1187374028317-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Sat Aug 18 02:00:11 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:00:11 EDT Subject: [gecko]peanut :( Message-ID: --part1_c77.192d647f.33f79e9b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jessica ~ For some reason my earlier post this morn has not come through. I am sorry that Peanut is gone. You have done so incredibly much for him!! Wish that all geckos were as fortunate. I'll be interested to hear the results of his necropsy. Are you also doing his histopathology? What does your vet say about the cause of Peanut's gout? My sad thoughts are with you, your four girls, and your family. May Peanut rest in peace. Regretfully yours, Elizabeth > Subj:[gecko]peanut :( > Date:8/17/07 7:16:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time > From: argente@gmail.com (argente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Peanut passed away last night. He didn't even crawl out of his > transportation dish so it must have been not long after we got back from the vet. He > didn't even close his eyes. I'm bringing him to the vet for a necropsy today. > So far the girls are ok but I want to take every precaution. > > -Jessica > l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c77.192d647f.33f79e9b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jessica ~

For some reason my earlier post this morn has not come through.

I am sorry that Peanut is gone. You have done so incredibly much f= or him!! Wish that all geckos were as fortunate. I'll be interes= ted to hear the results of his necropsy. Are you also doing his histop= athology?

What does your vet say about the cause of Peanut's gout?

My sad thoughts are with you, your four girls, and your family. Ma= y Peanut rest in peace.

Regretfully yours,
Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]peanut :(
Date:8/17/07 7:16:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    argente@gmail.com (argente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Peanut passed away last night. He didn't even crawl out of his tra= nsportation dish so it must have been not long after we got back from the ve= t. He didn't even close his eyes. I'm bringing him to the vet fo= r a necropsy today. So far the girls are ok but I want to take every p= recaution.=20

-Jessica

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c77.192d647f.33f79e9b_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Wed Aug 22 18:23:53 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:23:53 EDT Subject: [gecko]speaking of gout... Message-ID: --part1_c39.1c5dbfc6.33fdcb29_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica ~ How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars from the vet? I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one way street. Elizabeth > Subj:[gecko]speaking of gout... > Date:8/16/07 3:37:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: argente@gmail.com (argente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > I just got back from the entire crew's trip to the vet. First the good > news: the girls all seem to be fine, just jumpy from the move. He took a blood > sample from Carrots just to be sure, since she is the most subdued. Rocky is > on the other end of the spectrum, waving her tail and running about > frantically. On inspection they all look healthy so unless Carrots' tests show > something it's back to business as usual with the girls. I'll have results on > Monday. Someone (either Rocky, Ellipsis, or Smiley) regurgitated some worms on > the way home though. > > Now the not good news. Peanut has a very high white blood cell count and > major signs of kidney disease. The vet thinks it's a particular kind of gout > where crystals enter the tissue (I forget the name he said). He also has > pinworms. Vet prescribed Fortaz, with subcutaenous injections every other day, > which I'm not looking forward to doing. Peanut's weight was down from 84g to > 76g since Monday (he hasn't eaten anything in that span) so I'll also start > syringe feeding him Carnivore Care. He's even more listless and I'm really > worried about him by the vet was pretty optimistic. We go in for a follow-up > on Tuesday. If he's not doing any better by then we will revisit crypto as a > possibility. My vet doesn't like to test for it since he feels the test is > unreliable enough to be useless. If the current treatment doesn't help I'm > going to insist on the test anyway. > > In the meantime I will switch my mealworms to a different gutload (or at > least start the transition since picking them all out of their current bedding > is pretty impossible). Can they live in the Repashy diet or do they need to > be taken out and gutloaded separately before feeding? > > Thanks to everyone for your helpful and hopeful comments. I feel much > better knowing that I have a panel of experts helping me along. > > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c39.1c5dbfc6.33fdcb29_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica ~

How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars fro= m the vet? I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether=20= that is a one way street.

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]speaking of=20= gout...
Date:8/16/07 3:37:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    argente@gmail.com (argente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

I just got back from the entire crew's trip to the vet. First the=20= good news: the girls all seem to be fine, just jumpy from the move. &n= bsp;He took a blood sample from Carrots just to be sure, since she is the mo= st subdued. Rocky is on the other end of the spectrum, waving her tail= and running about frantically. On inspection they all look healthy so= unless Carrots' tests show something it's back to business as usual with th= e girls. I'll have results on Monday. Someone (either Rocky, Ell= ipsis, or Smiley) regurgitated some worms on the way home though.=20

Now the not good news. Peanut has a very high white blood cell cou= nt and major signs of kidney disease. The vet thinks it's a particular= kind of gout where crystals enter the tissue (I forget the name he said). &= nbsp;He also has pinworms. Vet prescribed Fortaz, with subcutaenous in= jections every other day, which I'm not looking forward to doing. Pean= ut's weight was down from 84g to 76g since Monday (he hasn't eaten anything=20= in that span) so I'll also start syringe feeding him Carnivore Care. H= e's even more listless and I'm really worried about him by the vet was prett= y optimistic. We go in for a follow-up on Tuesday. If he's not d= oing any better by then we will revisit crypto as a possibility. My ve= t doesn't like to test for it since he feels the test is unreliable enough t= o be useless. If the current treatment doesn't help I'm going to insis= t on the test anyway.=20

In the meantime I will switch my mealworms to a different gutload (or at= least start the transition since picking them all out of their current bedd= ing is pretty impossible). Can they live in the Repashy diet or do the= y need to be taken out and gutloaded separately before feeding?=20

Thanks to everyone for your helpful and hopeful comments. I feel m= uch better knowing that I have a panel of experts helping me along.

-Jessica

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c39.1c5dbfc6.33fdcb29_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 23 06:15:42 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (argente) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:15:42 -0400 Subject: [gecko]re: speaking of gout... Message-ID: ------=_Part_141326_15290491.1187846142220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Elizabeth, Peanut didn't make it - he passed away last week, hopefully in his sleep. The vet is performing a necropsy but I won't have any answers from that for another week or so. Three of the girls are behaving normally and eating well. I'm still worried about my other girl Carrots though. She has always been the quiet littlest one and her tail has gotten pretty skinny. I've been syringe feeding her since she shows no interest in worms or crickets and am waiting to hear back from the vet on her blood work. I really hope that we've caught whatever it is in time to get her healthy. Thanks for your concern. -Jessica Jessica ~ > > How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars from the > vet? > I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one way > street. > > Elizabeth ------=_Part_141326_15290491.1187846142220 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Elizabeth,

Peanut didn't make it - he passed away last week, hopefully in his sleep. The vet is performing a necropsy but I won't have any answers from that for another week or so. Three of the girls are behaving normally and eating well. I'm still worried about my other girl Carrots though. She has always been the quiet littlest one and her tail has gotten pretty skinny. I've been syringe feeding her since she shows no interest in worms or crickets and am waiting to hear back from the vet on her blood work. I really hope that we've caught whatever it is in time to get her healthy. Thanks for your concern.

-Jessica

Jessica ~

How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars from the vet?
I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one way
street.

Elizabeth
------=_Part_141326_15290491.1187846142220-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 23 08:43:52 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 03:43:52 EDT Subject: [gecko]re: speaking of gout... Message-ID: --part1_cb6.15872cbc.33fe94b8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica ~ I am saddened to hear that Peanut passed away. Do you know how old he was? May your little friend rest in peace. I hope that you have gotten to Carrot's issues in time. What type of food are you using for the syringe feeding? Apparently Carrot is tolerating those? Just curious to hear what type of fish flakes you had been gutloading with. For part of my gutload for the older crickets I used to add TetraMin Tropical Fish Flakes, The Rich Mix, sometimes. When my male leopard gecko Rocky died gout consumed his body. He still maintained a "healthy" weight. The fish flakes were the only dietary thing I could trace a problem to. Earlier I did have a flying gecko die from stress and also from gout ("fatty liver disease"). At that time I was sometimes using puppy, kitten, dog, and cat food samples as a sometimes partial gutload for the crickets. Never do that either!! The samples ranged from 16%-21% minimum crude fat and the TetraMin has 8% min crude fat and 46% min crude protein. I have ceased doing both those things and now use Fluker Farms' High-Calcium Cricket Food, alfalfa hay (Hay-Kob), and oatmeal. Occasionally I'll add collard greens, carrots, zucchini. Perhaps some geckos are more susceptible to gout than others. But, definitely, they are what they eat. I appreciate you keeping the List informed. Elizabeth > Subj:[gecko]re: speaking of gout... > Date:8/22/07 10:16:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: argente@gmail.com (argente) > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Hi Elizabeth, > > Peanut didn't make it - he passed away last week, hopefully in his sleep. > The vet is performing a necropsy but I won't have any answers from that for > another week or so. Three of the girls are behaving normally and eating well. > I'm still worried about my other girl Carrots though. She has always been > the quiet littlest one and her tail has gotten pretty skinny. I've been > syringe feeding her since she shows no interest in worms or crickets and am > waiting to hear back from the vet on her blood work. I really hope that we've > caught whatever it is in time to get her healthy. Thanks for your concern. > > -Jessica > > > >> Jessica ~ >> >> How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars from the >> vet? >> I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one way >> street. >> >> > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_cb6.15872cbc.33fe94b8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica ~

I am saddened to hear that Peanut passed away. Do you know how old= he was? May your little friend rest in peace.

I hope that you have gotten to Carrot's issues in time. What type=20= of food are you using for the syringe feeding? Apparently Carrot is to= lerating those?

Just curious to hear what type of fish flakes you had been gutloading wi= th. For part of my gutload for the older crickets I used to<= /I> add TetraMin Tropical Fish Flakes, The Rich Mix, sometimes. When m= y male leopard gecko Rocky died gout consumed his body. He still maint= ained a "healthy" weight. The fish flakes were the only dietary thing=20= I could trace a problem to. Earlier I did have a flying gecko die from= stress and also from gout ("fatty liver disease"). At that time= I was sometimes using puppy, kitten, dog, and cat food samples as a= sometimes partial gutload for the crickets. Never do that either!!= The samples ranged from 16%-21% minimum crude fat and the TetraMi= n has 8% min crude fat and 46% min crude protein. I have ceased doing=20= both those things and now use Fluker Farms' High-Calcium Cricket Food, alfal= fa hay (Hay-Kob), and oatmeal. Occasionally I'll add collard greens, c= arrots, zucchini.

Perhaps some geckos are more susceptible to gout than others. But,= definitely, they are what they eat.

I appreciate you keeping the List informed.

Elizabeth

Subj:[gecko]re: speaking= of gout...
Date:8/22/07 10:16:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    argente@gmail.com (argente)
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Hi Elizabeth,

Peanut didn't make it - he passed away last week, hopefully in his sleep= . The vet is performing a necropsy but I won't have any answers from t= hat for another week or so. Three of the girls are behaving normally a= nd eating well. I'm still worried about my other girl Carrots though.=20= She has always been the quiet littlest one and her tail has gotten pre= tty skinny. I've been syringe feeding her since she shows no interest=20= in worms or crickets and am waiting to hear back from the vet on her blood w= ork. I really hope that we've caught whatever it is in time to get her= healthy. Thanks for your concern.=20

-Jessica

Jessica ~

How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars fro= m the vet?=20
I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one= way
street.

Elizabeth

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


**************************************
Get a sneak pe= ek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_cb6.15872cbc.33fe94b8_boundary-- From gecko@lists.gekkota.com Thu Aug 23 11:57:18 2007 From: gecko@lists.gekkota.com (gecko@lists.gekkota.com) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:57:18 EDT Subject: [gecko]re: speaking of gout... Message-ID: --part1_bd9.18da6150.33fec20e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica ~ By the way, does Carrots have her own digs? That might be a good idea to eliminate any competition for food since she is the smallest. Elizabeth > Subj:Re: [gecko]re: speaking of gout... > Date:8/23/07 12:44:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time > From: ElizabethFreer@aol.com > Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com > Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com > > Jessica ~ > > I am saddened to hear that Peanut passed away. Do you know how old he was? > May your little friend rest in peace. > > I hope that you have gotten to Carrots' issues in time. What type of food > are you using for the syringe feeding? Apparently Carrots is tolerating > those? > > Just curious to hear what type of fish flakes you had been gutloading with. > For part of my gutload for the older crickets I used to add TetraMin > Tropical Fish Flakes, The Rich Mix, sometimes. When my male leopard gecko Rocky > died gout consumed his body. He still maintained a "healthy" weight. The fish > flakes were the only dietary thing I could trace a problem to. Earlier I did > have a flying gecko die from stress and also from gout ("fatty liver > disease"). At that time I was sometimes using puppy, kitten, dog, and cat food > samples as a sometimes partial gutload for the crickets. Never do that either!! > The samples ranged from 16%-21% minimum crude fat and the TetraMin has 8% > min crude fat and 46% min crude protein. I have ceased doing both those things > and now use Fluker Farms' High-Calcium Cricket Food, alfalfa hay (Hay-Kob), > and oatmeal. Occasionally I'll add collard greens, carrots, zucchini. > > Perhaps some geckos are more susceptible to gout than others. But, > definitely, they are what they eat. > > I appreciate you keeping the List informed. > > Elizabeth > > > >> Subj:[gecko]re: speaking of gout... >> Date:8/22/07 10:16:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time >> From: argente@gmail.com (argente) >> Sender: gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com >> Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> To: gecko@lists.gekkota.com >> >> Hi Elizabeth, >> >> Peanut didn't make it - he passed away last week, hopefully in his sleep. >> The vet is performing a necropsy but I won't have any answers from that for >> another week or so. Three of the girls are behaving normally and eating >> well. I'm still worried about my other girl Carrots though. She has always >> been the quiet littlest one and her tail has gotten pretty skinny. I've been >> syringe feeding her since she shows no interest in worms or crickets and am >> waiting to hear back from the vet on her blood work. I really hope that >> we've caught whatever it is in time to get her healthy. Thanks for your >> concern. >> >> -Jessica >> >> >> >>> Jessica ~ >>> >>> How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars from the >>> vet? >>> I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one way >>> street. >>> >>> >> > Elizabeth ~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~ l l l ^^ /..\ ^^ /..\ ^^ ^^ /..\ ^^ l l ^^ llll \\\ l l llll /// l l llll \\\ l l ~~ llll /// ~~ ( ~~ ) ~~ ~~ ( ~~ ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) lappert(a) robert(a) hubert(a) 17.50 yo r.i.p. r.i.p. (All Lepidodactylus lugubris!)

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_bd9.18da6150.33fec20e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jessica ~

By the way, does Carrots have her own digs? That might be a good i= dea to eliminate any competition for food since she is the smallest.

Elizabeth

Subj:Re: [gecko]re: spea= king of gout...
Date:8/23/07 12:44:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:    ElizabethFreer@aol.com
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com

Jessica ~=20

I am saddened to hear that Peanut passed away. Do you know how old= he was? May your little friend rest in peace.=20

I hope that you have gotten to Carrots' issues in time. What type=20= of food are you using for the syringe feeding? Apparently Carrots is t= olerating those?

Just curious to hear what type of fish flakes you had been gutloading wi= th. For part of my gutload for the older crickets I used to<= /I> add TetraMin Tropical Fish Flakes, The Rich Mix, sometimes. When m= y male leopard gecko Rocky died gout consumed his body. He still maint= ained a "healthy" weight. The fish flakes were the only dietary thing=20= I could trace a problem to. Earlier I did have a flying gecko die from= stress and also from gout ("fatty liver disease"). At that time= I was sometimes using puppy, kitten, dog, and cat food samples as a= sometimes partial gutload for the crickets. Never do that either!!= The samples ranged from 16%-21% minimum crude fat and the TetraMi= n has 8% min crude fat and 46% min crude protein. I have ceased doing=20= both those things and now use Fluker Farms' High-Calcium Cricket Food, alfal= fa hay (Hay-Kob), and oatmeal. Occasionally I'll add collard greens, c= arrots, zucchini.=20

Perhaps some geckos are more susceptible to gout than others. But,= definitely, they are what they eat.=20

I appreciate you keeping the List informed.=20

Elizabeth=20

Subj:[gecko]re: speaking= of gout...=20
Date:8/22/07 10:16:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time=20
From:    argente@gmail.com (argente)=20
Sender:    gecko-admin@lists.gekkota.com=20
Reply-to: gecko@lists.gekkota= .com=20
To:    gecko@lists.gekkota.com=20

Hi Elizabeth,=20

Peanut didn't make it - he passed away last week, hopefully in his sleep= . The vet is performing a necropsy but I won't have any answers from t= hat for another week or so. Three of the girls are behaving normally a= nd eating well. I'm still worried about my other girl Carrots though.=20= She has always been the quiet littlest one and her tail has gotten pre= tty skinny. I've been syringe feeding her since she shows no interest=20= in worms or crickets and am waiting to hear back from the vet on her blood w= ork. I really hope that we've caught whatever it is in time to get her= healthy. Thanks for your concern.=20

-Jessica=20

Jessica ~=20

How are you and Peanut doing? Have you heard other particulars fro= m the vet?=20
I am sorry about Peanut's gout. I don't know whether that is a one= way=20
street.=20

Elizabeth

Elizabeth
~~~geckos make my heart sing (and dance)~~~

         l   &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      l      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    l        &nb= sp;
  ^^ /..\        &nb= sp;     ^^ /..\ ^^    &n= bsp;      ^^ /..\ ^^
       l l   ^^ &nbs= p;            ll= ll             &= nbsp;        \\\
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            //= /
       l l    &= nbsp;            = ;   llll         &nbs= p;            \\= \
       l l ~~ &nbs= p;           llll &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;       ///
  ~~ (         =        ~~    )   = ;~~         ~~   ( &= nbsp; ~~
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
        (    &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   (
           ) &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    (        &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;      )
     lappert(a)     &= nbsp;         robert(a) &= nbsp;            = ;     hubert(a)
      17.50 yo     &n= bsp;            =   r.i.p.          &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;    r.i.p.

            = ;           (All= Lepidodactylus lugubris!)


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